Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:14 pm  

Dally wrote:

Poor stategic thinking is pushing Russia toward China which would leave the old West, or more particularly, Europe very vulnerable.

To what? Invasion? Really, the Chinese are going to back an invasion by the Russians of their major sales markets?

The Russian leaders are brainless thugs, the Chinese are smart, organised and their leaders have no "c0ck waving" agenda they have to follow to stay in power. Russia is a steaming S4h1thole with it's only "product" being oil and gas (as long as you don't count computer viruses, teen sex slaves, gangsters or brides for rich old dudes), which is owned and controlled by Putin and his Oligarch backers. The wealth of Russia is being siphoned off into property in West London and Cyprus banks. They scare me the way Vinnie Jones scares me, I wouldn't want to end up spilling his drink but other than that I find his acting work easy to ignore.

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:10 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Ooo, all machismo – images of hunting and shooting and fishing, with bare flesh and rippling muscles as well as the guns.

Ooo Dally, don't pretend you don't understand.

I'll have to find the report that appeared in one of the Sunday broadsheets where they sent a reporter to Russia to interview two Russian newspaper men ostensibly about life in general in Russia but with a slant towards homophobia.

Without prompting he was invited to a holiday home that one of the reporters had where his two hosts stripped naked and took a sauna to demonstrate what Russian males call their bonding time, he thought it was a little uncomfortable in -10 degrees but went along and got naked with his two new pals in the sauna including the beatings with tree branches and a full body massage from one of his hosts, they also sat and chatted about hunting pigs and other wild animals and his hosts were very complimentary about Putin and his fine figure of a man photos, they are very admiring of their President.

Finally at the end of the weekend the English reporter broached the subject of homo-erotica coincidentally (or maybe not) while he was being beaten with birch twigs again - he said that the atmosphere of convivial male bonding and vodka suddenly became ice cold and his hosts were very explicit on what they would do if they ever came across a homosexual male, after a little more prompting they got a little suspicious about their guest and took him straight to the airport

It was quite a funny article which reinforced every stereotype, the only thing that was missing was for the reporter to declare that he was gay.

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:33 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

... It was quite a funny article which reinforced every stereotype, the only thing that was missing was for the reporter to declare that he was gay.

I think I read that.

It would have been better yet if he'd declared himself gay AND kinky, and thus enjoyed all that birching.

One of the things that occurs to me is how much it illustrates just how different culturally is Eastern Europe from the west of Europe. That's the big divide.

For all Dally's desire for us to have an alliance with Russia, we have have so much more in common with the rest of Northern Europe (including, but not limited to, language). From the perspective of the UK, we've ditched a lot of that in favour of the States and a rampant import of all things American.

Hey ho ...

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:15 pm  

Amazing how within four post a thread can be completely derailed from talking about the Wests hypocrisy over the happenings in Ukraine onto the subject of homophobia! Trying to get back to the point - there is a shocking report on Channel 4 about the Far Right leaders who have taken power being behind the sniper killings of police and protestors, backing up claims made by Putin that it is indeed a far right Fascist Coup that our glorious leader Cameron is supporting. http://www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-ca ... ged-leaked n the conversation the speakers discuss a suspicion that snipers who shot protesters in Kiev's Independence Square, at the height of the Maidan protests, had been hired by opposition leaders, not the Ukrainian government of ousted President Yanukovych. It is reported that Ukraine's special services, friendly to ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, bugged the conversation between Baroness Ashton and a man believed to be Urmas Paet, the Estonian foreign minister. It is thought the conversation took place around the 26 February, shortly after Yanukovych fled the country. There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers it was not Yanukovych, but it was somebody from the new coalition. Urmas Paet In the recording, the male voice says he has been told of evidence suggesting that one group was responsible for shooting both riot police and protesters alike, and that there is a "stronger and stronger understanding" that one of the Maidan leaders organised the shootings. It has previously been reported that government gunmen were responsible for the majority of 88 protester deaths in the uprising. The man alleged to be Mr Paet describes how he spoke to "Olga" - a person whom the female voice on the tape, believed to be Baroness Ashton, seems to know. He describes Olga as a doctors' leader in Ukraine. It is understood that Olga refers to Dr Olga Bogomolets. Mr Paet says that Olga told him that "all evidence shows that the people were killed by snipers from both sides - among policemen and people from the streets - that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides." He continues: "And it's really disturbing that now the new coalition [government], they don't want to investigate what exactly happened, so that there is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers it was not Yanukovych, but it was somebody from the new coalition." Baroness Ashton apparently responds: "I think they do want to investigate, and I didn't know... pick that up - gosh."

Amazing how within four post a thread can be completely derailed from talking about the Wests hypocrisy over the happenings in Ukraine onto the subject of homophobia! Trying to get back to the point - there is a shocking report on Channel 4 about the Far Right leaders who have taken power being behind the sniper killings of police and protestors, backing up claims made by Putin that it is indeed a far right Fascist Coup that our glorious leader Cameron is supporting. http://www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-ca ... ged-leaked n the conversation the speakers discuss a suspicion that snipers who shot protesters in Kiev's Independence Square, at the height of the Maidan protests, had been hired by opposition leaders, not the Ukrainian government of ousted President Yanukovych. It is reported that Ukraine's special services, friendly to ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, bugged the conversation between Baroness Ashton and a man believed to be Urmas Paet, the Estonian foreign minister. It is thought the conversation took place around the 26 February, shortly after Yanukovych fled the country. There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers it was not Yanukovych, but it was somebody from the new coalition. Urmas Paet In the recording, the male voice says he has been told of evidence suggesting that one group was responsible for shooting both riot police and protesters alike, and that there is a "stronger and stronger understanding" that one of the Maidan leaders organised the shootings. It has previously been reported that government gunmen were responsible for the majority of 88 protester deaths in the uprising. The man alleged to be Mr Paet describes how he spoke to "Olga" - a person whom the female voice on the tape, believed to be Baroness Ashton, seems to know. He describes Olga as a doctors' leader in Ukraine. It is understood that Olga refers to Dr Olga Bogomolets. Mr Paet says that Olga told him that "all evidence shows that the people were killed by snipers from both sides - among policemen and people from the streets - that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides." He continues: "And it's really disturbing that now the new coalition [government], they don't want to investigate what exactly happened, so that there is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers it was not Yanukovych, but it was somebody from the new coalition." Baroness Ashton apparently responds: "I think they do want to investigate, and I didn't know... pick that up - gosh."

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:50 pm  

LeighGionaire wrote: Amazing how within four post a thread can be completely derailed from talking about the Wests hypocrisy over the happenings in Ukraine onto the subject of homophobia! Trying to get back to the point - there is a shocking report on Channel 4 about the Far Right leaders who have taken power being behind the sniper killings of police and protestors, backing up claims made by Putin that it is indeed a far right Fascist Coup that our glorious leader Cameron is supporting. http://www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-ca ... ged-leaked There was a UK-based Russian reporter stating exactly the same thing on the ITV morning news today, he had picked it up from Russian TV broadcasts, in other words this is the story that is being fed to the Russian public.

LeighGionaire wrote: Amazing how within four post a thread can be completely derailed from talking about the Wests hypocrisy over the happenings in Ukraine onto the subject of homophobia! Trying to get back to the point - there is a shocking report on Channel 4 about the Far Right leaders who have taken power being behind the sniper killings of police and protestors, backing up claims made by Putin that it is indeed a far right Fascist Coup that our glorious leader Cameron is supporting. http://www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-ca ... ged-leaked There was a UK-based Russian reporter stating exactly the same thing on the ITV morning news today, he had picked it up from Russian TV broadcasts, in other words this is the story that is being fed to the Russian public.

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:57 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

There was a UK-based Russian reporter stating exactly the same thing on the ITV morning news today, he had picked it up from Russian TV broadcasts, in other words this is the story that is being fed to the Russian public.

Well if you actually cared to click the link you can listen to the taped phone conversation yourself. They do indeed state that they think members of the currently installed government were behind the shootings.

The Russian public seem to be getting more info then our glorious BBC are giving us. No mention of this tape anywhere on their website yet.

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:02 pm  

Another link containing interesting info about what the IMF might impose upon Ukraine if they get their way - http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/28/t ... wo-begins/ IMF plunder of Ukraine Crown Jewels Now that the “opposition” has driven a duly-elected president into exile somewhere unknown, and dissolved the national riot police, Berkut, Washington has demanded that Ukraine submit to onerous IMF conditionalities. In negotiations last October, the IMF demanded that Ukraine double prices for gas and electricity to industry and homes, that they lift a ban on private sale of Ukraine’s rich agriculture lands, make a major overhaul of their economic holdings, devalue the currency, slash state funds for school children and the elderly to “balance the budget.” In return Ukraine would get a paltry $4 billion. Before the ouster of the Moscow-leaning Yanukovich government last week, Moscow was prepared to buy some $15 billion of Ukraine debt and to slash its gas prices by fully one-third. Now, understandably, Russia is unlikely to give that support. The economic cooperation between Ukraine and Moscow was something Washington was determined to sabotage at all costs.

Another link containing interesting info about what the IMF might impose upon Ukraine if they get their way - http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/28/t ... wo-begins/ IMF plunder of Ukraine Crown Jewels Now that the “opposition” has driven a duly-elected president into exile somewhere unknown, and dissolved the national riot police, Berkut, Washington has demanded that Ukraine submit to onerous IMF conditionalities. In negotiations last October, the IMF demanded that Ukraine double prices for gas and electricity to industry and homes, that they lift a ban on private sale of Ukraine’s rich agriculture lands, make a major overhaul of their economic holdings, devalue the currency, slash state funds for school children and the elderly to “balance the budget.” In return Ukraine would get a paltry $4 billion. Before the ouster of the Moscow-leaning Yanukovich government last week, Moscow was prepared to buy some $15 billion of Ukraine debt and to slash its gas prices by fully one-third. Now, understandably, Russia is unlikely to give that support. The economic cooperation between Ukraine and Moscow was something Washington was determined to sabotage at all costs.

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:02 pm  

Have we found out from Dally, how the homosexual community have been responsible for the moral decline of the West yet??

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:55 pm  

Was also the new reporter who resigned live on air due to the Russian invasion into Ukraine, can't remember the channel though. Edit: Russia today it was link here http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/06/russia-today-reporter-resigns-live-on-air-over-crimea-4438921/

Was also the new reporter who resigned live on air due to the Russian invasion into Ukraine, can't remember the channel though. Edit: Russia today it was link here http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/06/russia-today-reporter-resigns-live-on-air-over-crimea-4438921/

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:58 pm  

LeighGionaire wrote:

Well if you actually cared to click the link you can listen to the taped phone conversation yourself. They do indeed state that they think members of the currently installed government were behind the shootings.

The Russian public seem to be getting more info then our glorious BBC are giving us. No mention of this tape anywhere on their website yet.

Has it been verified as genuine? Didn't think so. Interesting you lap up an unverified phone call allegedly between an Estonian politician and Baroness Ashton, citing a further unverified conversation with a Dr Olga stating that unproven and as yet unseen 'evidence' points to far-right snipers killing both police and protesters - despite the square being occupied by police at the time and the good Dr Olga denying she said anything of the sort.

One Russia Today anchor condemned Russia's actions at the end of her segment, and another quit live on air, stating she could not work for a network that 'whitewashed' the actions of Putin. But of course, in your view Russian media are doing a grand and fair job. Sorry, but if you think the Russian public are getting more info than us via state channels, you're an idiot.

Not that it matters much. The West are hamstrung. NATO will never risk military action against Russia, neither will any coalition of Western forces. Germany rely too heavily on Russia and are keeping their heads down, the UK is muttering lamely and the USA can deliver all the hard talk it likes, but that's about it. Putin could carpet-bomb Kiev and not one Western country will step up.

Economic sanctions could bite at Russia but would also be hugely damaging to many Western firms. Russia, Germany, the UK, USA and many other countries are massively invested in one another to the tune of many billions, not to mention reliance on Russian energy across Europe. The drop in the Rouble and market response could hurt Russia, but not on a long term basis.