Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:10 am  

I thought passports can be confiscated/cancelled without any need for any legal process does it not say that inside your passport? Is the issue of the passport not at the discretion on the Home Office?

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:32 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Not one born here, no, but a naturalised one, yes. And apparently in recent times the Home Secretary has served at least 27 Notices of Deprivation, doing exactly that, regardless.

By an astonishing co-incidence, at least 2 of those were killed by US drones shortly afterwards.

But, we did in 1961 sign up to the UN Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness, so that's all right.

What does the 1961 convention state ?

Nigel Farage has been promoting himself as a sage on everything on TV again by declaring that there is a law still in force from the 1870s that allows the country to remove citizenship from anyone found to be guilty of aiding a foreign state, he believes it was used in the two world wars for anyone who opted to fight for Germany (for instance).

Its possible that Nigel may not have researched the subject properly though.

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:23 am  

If the guy carrying out that execution was born and raised in Britain, and has a British passport, then he is technically Brtish, regardless of his actions.

Still a horrible c*nt, though.

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:50 am  

JerryChicken wrote: What does the 1961 convention state ? ... This To pick a single point Article 8: - Contracting States shall not deprive people of their nationality so as to render them stateless.

JerryChicken wrote: What does the 1961 convention state ? ... This To pick a single point Article 8: - Contracting States shall not deprive people of their nationality so as to render them stateless.

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:03 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I thought passports can be confiscated/cancelled without any need for any legal process does it not say that inside your passport? Is the issue of the passport not at the discretion on the Home Office?

How is this relevant? It is not compulsory for any British citizen to ever hold a passport, and cancellation of a passport is irrelevant to nationality.

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:04 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I thought passports can be confiscated/cancelled without any need for any legal process does it not say that inside your passport? Is the issue of the passport not at the discretion on the Home Office?

That's what I thought too. The Home Office or Border Agency or whoever is in charge of passports presumably could quite easily cancel their passports.

But they can't have their citizenship taken away.

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:12 am  

Him wrote:

That's what I thought too. The Home Office or Border Agency or whoever is in charge of passports presumably could quite easily cancel their passports.

But they can't have their citizenship taken away.

I'm at a loss to understand what use cancelling passports would be.

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:58 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

I'm at a loss to understand what use cancelling passports would be.

Well it can't do any harm to try and restrict their movements should they try to. But identifying exactly who they are could be very difficult.

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:33 pm  

The 2014 Immigration Act allows those who acquired citizenship by registration or naturalisation to have it removed on the basis of certain conduct, so a full examination of this guy's past, if they ever work out who he is, would be needed. In any case it can only be done if the Home Sec believes that the person can then become a national of another country. Not sure if that has all been enacted yet but it will be soon, I think.

Cancelling a passport would restrict travel as the cancellation would come up at an airport immigration scan, and so entry to wherever, if being done properly, could be denied, and potentially the person could be arrested. Alternatively we have a load of British terrorists wandering round airside like Tom Hanks

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:28 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

The 2014 Immigration Act allows those who acquired citizenship by registration or naturalisation to have it removed on the basis of certain conduct, so a full examination of this guy's past, if they ever work out who he is, would be needed. In any case it can only be done if the Home Sec believes that the person can then become a national of another country. Not sure if that has all been enacted yet but it will be soon, I think.

It is in force, but the point is (and most likely the psychopath was chosen for the job for the same reason) about British-born jihadists.

Chris28 wrote:

Cancelling a passport would restrict travel as the cancellation would come up at an airport immigration scan, and so entry to wherever, if being done properly, could be denied, and potentially the person could be arrested. Alternatively we have a load of British terrorists wandering round airside like Tom Hanks

Not following this; if we know who he is then he could be detained by ANY border agency which detected a flag against his name, what would cancelling his passport add? It might even make it worse, as surely if the flag said "suspected psychopath terrorist" then the relevant border agency might act in one way, whereas if all they thought they were dealing with is some guy with a cancelled passport, they might not be ready with appropriate security.
The discussion on this started with the suggestion from Dita's that:

Our authorities know who these scum are who are signing up for this 'holy' war - Simply, their passports should be voided and they should never ever step foot back in this country (if they attempt it).

If the chap was identified and landed at Gatwick I should imagine we'd be rather keen to keep hold of him rather than send him back anywhere. The status of his passport would be the least of his troubles. But again, there is confusion here. If a British national arrives at the border incoming, he could not be refused entry. You only need a passport to enter other countries. Having had your valid British passport cancelled whilst abroad simply is not a reason to deny a person entry. If he is British then he is our problem.