Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:08 pm  

Him wrote:

I'm sure there was an element of the Council/police/social workers etc being nervous of the racial side of it but I think a bigger factor is that these children are generally from poor backgrounds and often from households lacking decent parenting or, as in the case of a girl shown by Look North, girls who have been abandoned by their parents.

To start with it means there isn't anyone there to check up on these girls or be concerned about anything. For instance, I know I'd have gone berserk had my 14 year old daughter been going out with a 24 year old who's just come out of prison. And there is no way I'd have been allowing her out on a night with this bloke.

Also, as they're from poor backgrounds, they often aren't as eloquent in expressing any concerns to social workers or when making a complaint to police. So, coupled with no parents to kick up a fuss, it's much easier for social services and the police to ignore the problem.

Then, as LGJM says, add in the chav/scummer factor along with cuts to council services and a ridiculous target culture in the public sector and to be honest it's no suprise things like this happen.

Pretty twisted perspective of events imo. Move the blame away from the perpetrators onto the victims parents. Did you read the bit about the Fathers been arrested for trying recover their children?

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:10 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Wincanton a "leafy middle-class suburb"? Don't make me fooking laugh. It's a town of approximately 7000 inhabitants, many of whom are either Polish and Portuguese, with a healthy smattering of Chinese and Indian, Pakistani & Sri Lankan.

I have been having a quick play with the 2011 census data:

Of the 5272 people in your area who responded, 4874 described themselves as white and English / Scottish / Irish / Welsh / British. Or put slightly differently, 92.5% of people.

22 people said they were Indian or British Indian, one person described themselves as Pakistani, and no-one admitted to being from Sri Lanka. Even if you include that entire Asian block, we are still talking no more than around 50 people. As for Chinese, you have got 13 of those and 146 Poles. I can find no reference to Portuguese, but presume they fall under 'other white', which accounts for 27 people.

The south west, i.e. where you live, has the second highest % of 'white British' people as a region, behind Wales. So don't try and make out that you live in some multi-cultural utopia.

Are you still earning your coin offshore? If so, have you fully assimilated into German society?

I did 2 years 3 months there. I had a good go at the lingo, got involved in all sorts of local activities, and even had a girlfriend out there. All in all, a pretty decent effort at integrating with the locals.

I now live in London where, in certain parts, it is very easy to forget that you are in the UK.

Very easy for you to come on here and bag people who worry about immigration, when it just doesn't appear to be an issue in your area.

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:18 pm  

deeHell wrote:

Pretty twisted perspective of events imo. Move the blame away from the perpetrators onto the victims parents. Did you read the bit about the Fathers been arrested for trying recover their children?

I'm not moving the blame anywhere, it's fairly and squarely on the shoulders of the people who abused these children.

But you can't ignore other issues, such as social services and police not taking complaints and signs seriously, or, in some cases, a lack of proper parenting.

As I said, there was a girl on Look North who was 14 at the time she was abused. Her parents had previously abandoned her to foster parents and the social care system. She had a relationship with a 24 year old just out of prison. Would you allow your 14 year old daughter to go out on a night with a 24 year old just out of prison? Would you let her stay over with him?
There's no way on earth I would.

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:37 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

I now live in London where, in certain parts, it is very easy to forget that you are in the UK.

That's racist

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:57 pm  

Him wrote:

I'm not moving the blame anywhere, it's fairly and squarely on the shoulders of the people who abused these children.

But you can't ignore other issues, such as social services and police not taking complaints and signs seriously, or, in some cases, a lack of proper parenting.

As I said, there was a girl on Look North who was 14 at the time she was abused. Her parents had previously abandoned her to foster parents and the social care system. She had a relationship with a 24 year old just out of prison. Would you allow your 14 year old daughter to go out on a night with a 24 year old just out of prison? Would you let her stay over with him?
There's no way on earth I would.

Bad parenting will always exist in every society. Thats why the state steps in as some kind of protection. What do you think is the biggest contribution to these events? For me it was firstly the cultural attitudes to Western women within the Pakistani/Muslim community. These were acts of mass exploitation of the most wicked nature. Calculated and pre meditated by large amount of men. So inhumane that the victims must of been de-humanised in the minds of the attackers. Lets have some sense of individual responsibility for these acts. secondly it was the various parts of the State that failed to take action to protect these girls. The states failures was a direct result of political correct culture with in them. It's seems to me your just uncomfortable discussing the cultural faults of the community the perpetrators come from. Blaming the parents is just a way of diverting the blame.

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:13 pm  

It's all too easy to just point at the parents and say 'you've failed as a parent'. Nobody knows the story behind how these children ended up in care, how they ended up living with single parents or how their lives have been affected by living in an area of depravation.

The parents shouldn't even be mentioned in this whole episode. What happened to these children was wrong and the blame lies with the perpetrators in the first instance. The council and police if anyone should be the ones who shoulder some of the blame for turning a blind eye.

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:53 pm  

Listening to a report on Radio 4 today and one case of a 12 year old girl was mentioned. Apparently she was told by a detective that she "obviously consented" to sex with an older man. Given the fact that a 12 year old cannot legally consent to sex, if true, this detective should be tracked down and charged with aiding and abetting child abuse. At the very least he should be summarily dismissed from the force.

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:06 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

Very easy for you to come on here and bag people who worry about immigration, when it just doesn't appear to be an issue in your area.

You don't simply "worry about immigration" - you're a racist, pure and simple. You've been called out on it in the past and nothing seems to have changed

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:24 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

You don't simply "worry about immigration" - you're a racist, pure and simple. You've been called out on it in the past and nothing seems to have changed

Yawn. You play this card almost every time, and it is a standard response from anyone of a left-leaning persuasion when losing an argument on immigration. Try and close-down the debate by calling other people racist.

Linking your comments back to the original topic - this is part of the problem with what happened in Rotherham. No-one wanted to intervene, for fear of being called racist.

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:29 pm  

deeHell wrote:

Bad parenting will always exist in every society. Thats why the state steps in as some kind of protection. What do you think is the biggest contribution to these events? For me it was firstly the cultural attitudes to Western women within the Pakistani/Muslim community. These were acts of mass exploitation of the most wicked nature. Calculated and pre meditated by large amount of men. So inhumane that the victims must of been de-humanised in the minds of the attackers. Lets have some sense of individual responsibility for these acts. secondly it was the various parts of the State that failed to take action to protect these girls. The states failures was a direct result of political correct culture with in them. It's seems to me your just uncomfortable discussing the cultural faults of the community the perpetrators come from. Blaming the parents is just a way of diverting the blame.

I've said the blame lies firmly on the shoulders of those who committed the abuse.
I've not "blamed" parents for this.
I've tried to point out what I think are some reasons as to why alarm bells weren't sounded with some of these girls.

I don't know why or how that could be translated into me being "uncomfortable" about the perpetrators or their community.

I sort of assumed that we were all of the opinion that the people who committed the acts are those responsible, I was attempting to discuss another aspect of the situation.

The council, social workers and the police are rightly taking flak over this issue, that doesn't mean they are "to blame" for the girls being abused.