Re: Is There An Alternative To The Current Economic Order? : Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:21 am  

DHM wrote: Just read that. Hope it's the case. Already stressed out. Movers seem to have issues with "resources" , ie. two guys turned up 2 hours late this morning and there is still far more left to pack and load than I am comfortable with. The one thing I paid through the nose to not be worried about is now another nightmare . You can tell I'm in a good mood . http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30309468 HMRC seem to confirm that the new rules kick in at exchange rather than completion, although if you've already exchanged before today then you have the choice of which charge to go for, one of my daughters jobs is to prepare the final accounts at completion so you can imagine her delight at this ruling yesterday

DHM wrote: Just read that. Hope it's the case. Already stressed out. Movers seem to have issues with "resources" , ie. two guys turned up 2 hours late this morning and there is still far more left to pack and load than I am comfortable with. The one thing I paid through the nose to not be worried about is now another nightmare . You can tell I'm in a good mood . http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30309468 HMRC seem to confirm that the new rules kick in at exchange rather than completion, although if you've already exchanged before today then you have the choice of which charge to go for, one of my daughters jobs is to prepare the final accounts at completion so you can imagine her delight at this ruling yesterday

Re: Is There An Alternative To The Current Economic Order? : Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:58 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

A land tax is an invitation to corruption on a vast scale.

Please explain how you reach that conclusion

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

Its also really hard to administer a system which keeps pace with sociological changes. Twenty years ago in most towns the highest priced real estate would have been in the town centre. Now its likely to be nowehere near as valuable as the best residential areas.

It's a dynamic system, you don't apply a value and leave it alone for decades

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

A land tax has to take into account cashflow, and the value of alternative uses, which is the biggest problem with it. Like it or not, its far easier to track, and tax, actual cash flow. The problem with corporate and income tax as an approach isn't the basic tax, its the loopholes which are allowed to develop (some originally for legitimate reasons such as to encourage investment).

Without transparent country-by-country reporting, there's absolutely zero chance of effectively tracking income and corporation taxes. Land doesn't move, its use may change but try convincing the tax authorities that the parcel of land you've just purchased in the City of London is an allotment and you intend growing leeks

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

Also, yes, if a an asset is of national benefit, everyone should pay a share for it, even those who don't use it. You cannot have a workable tax system where people can choose to opt out. In fact if you allow that you end up in the ultimate free market universe.

No one is arguing against national assets being developed and paid for from central funds. Perhaps you could explain how the DLR benefits a sheep farmer in Cumbria

Re: Is There An Alternative To The Current Economic Order? : Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:04 am  

JerryChicken wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30309468 HMRC seem to confirm that the new rules kick in at exchange rather than completion, although if you've already exchanged before today then you have the choice of which charge to go for, one of my daughters jobs is to prepare the final accounts at completion so you can imagine her delight at this ruling yesterday Just spoke with my solicitor. It's as I thought, everyone in our chain will have to give their solicitor instruction as to which system to use today prior to completion. It's been a total mess, and HMRC have not been much help. Have to be out if here by 1pm and not heard anything about completion yet.

JerryChicken wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30309468 HMRC seem to confirm that the new rules kick in at exchange rather than completion, although if you've already exchanged before today then you have the choice of which charge to go for, one of my daughters jobs is to prepare the final accounts at completion so you can imagine her delight at this ruling yesterday Just spoke with my solicitor. It's as I thought, everyone in our chain will have to give their solicitor instruction as to which system to use today prior to completion. It's been a total mess, and HMRC have not been much help. Have to be out if here by 1pm and not heard anything about completion yet.

Re: Is There An Alternative To The Current Economic Order? : Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:43 am  

The Super Rich and Us on BBC 2 last night was probably one of the most important financial documentaries of recent years. It explained how today's massive inequality has been created from the 1970s right up to the present day by the wealthy cashing in on the debt of the poor. An interesting stat emerged from the 2008 banking bailout. If the £375 billion had been evenly spread across Britain it would have meant £24,000 landing on every door step. Instead it made its way into the hands of the top 1%, a minority who were already rather well off.

Worth a watch but be prepared for your pi$$ boiling.

Re: Is There An Alternative To The Current Economic Order? : Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:59 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

The Super Rich and Us on BBC 2 last night was probably one of the most important financial documentaries of recent years. It explained how today's massive inequality has been created from the 1970s right up to the present day by the wealthy cashing in on the debt of the poor. An interesting stat emerged from the 2008 banking bailout. If the £375 billion had been evenly spread across Britain it would have meant £24,000 landing on every door step. Instead it made its way into the hands of the top 1%, a minority who were already rather well off.

Worth a watch but be prepared for your pi$$ boiling.

Agreed a very thought provoking programme - what I get from it is Capitalism is the without a doubt the best vehicle for wealth generation but the wealth needs spreading out in a more equitable nature.

Re: Is There An Alternative To The Current Economic Order? : Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:30 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Agreed a very thought provoking programme - what I get from it is Capitalism is the without a doubt the best vehicle for wealth generation but the wealth needs spreading out in a more equitable nature.

I can't ever see it changing, it will always be the same money in the same hands. My old man always says "when the bird $hit$ it $hit$ on the biggest pile".

The classic car feature was the most interesting for me. I've followed classic car prices for as long as I can remember and they have never been as mental as they are now. Even classics at the very bottom end of the market that could once be picked up in the Auto Trader for 10 grand, and we're only talking 10 years ago, are suddenly fetching 50 grand with demand and price rises ever pushing them out of the reach of genuinely fanatical average Joes. Last year a Ferrari 250GTO, considered the holy grail among many, sold at auction in California for just shy of £23 million! Just when did that become possible? A lot of the classic car auctions have now become pi$$ing contests for the super rich. Wealthy buyers will often have a collection of cars in the hundreds that just sit in storage, undriven, as collected trophies of their obscene wealth flaunted at auction.

The crash of 2008 may have left many of 'us' in disarray but the 'super-rich' have never had it so good.

Re: Is There An Alternative To The Current Economic Order? : Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:30 am  

Jeez SP.
You are sailing into unchartered waters. Are the lifeboats manned?
You have just taken a positive move from 14 to 13 on the litmus scale.
Keep up the good work.

Re: Is There An Alternative To The Current Economic Order? : Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:32 pm  

King Street Cat wrote:

I can't ever see it changing, it will always be the same money in the same hands. My old man always says "when the bird $hit$ it $hit$ on the biggest pile".

The classic car feature was the most interesting for me. I've followed classic car prices for as long as I can remember and they have never been as mental as they are now. Even classics at the very bottom end of the market that could once be picked up in the Auto Trader for 10 grand, and we're only talking 10 years ago, are suddenly fetching 50 grand with demand and price rises ever pushing them out of the reach of genuinely fanatical average Joes. Last year a Ferrari 250GTO, considered the holy grail among many, sold at auction in California for just shy of £23 million! Just when did that become possible? A lot of the classic car auctions have now become pi$$ing contests for the super rich. Wealthy buyers will often have a collection of cars in the hundreds that just sit in storage, undriven, as collected trophies of their obscene wealth flaunted at auction.

The crash of 2008 may have left many of 'us' in disarray but the 'super-rich' have never had it so good.

The problem with "investments" such as these is that they are worth precisely £0 until you can find another "super rich" person to give you more than £23million for it, only then will your "investment" be worthy of the name, until then its just a VERY expensive car sitting in your garage that, if you were honest with yourself, you didn't intend to pay quite so much for had it not been for that day in that auction house and in that buying frenzy, and you just hope that that situation can be recreated at the time when you need to cash in your "asset", otherwise its going to get very embarrassing.

Re: Is There An Alternative To The Current Economic Order? : Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:13 pm  

But we're talking about the super rich here. What's £23 million when you're a billionaire? It's barely even a drop in the ocean.

It's the investors at the bottom end who will suffer if/when the bottom drops out of the market. A lot of those bottom end prices are false and are relying on the wealthy keeping the equally false prices high at the top end. The bottom has dropped out before, it will happen again.

Re: Is There An Alternative To The Current Economic Order? : Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:57 pm  

King Street Cat wrote:

But we're talking about the super rich here. What's £23 million when you're a billionaire? It's barely even a drop in the ocean.

It's the investors at the bottom end who will suffer if/when the bottom drops out of the market. A lot of those bottom end prices are false and are relying on the wealthy keeping the equally false prices high at the top end. The bottom has dropped out before, it will happen again.

Oh I think £23million is a little more than a drop in the ocean even to a billionaire - the thing with most billionaire's is that they don't just throw around £23million as if its you or I spending £5, most billionaires made their billions themselves as there weren't many billionaires from the last generation to pass it on as inheritance and in being so most of them have a fairly good idea about accountancy - the phrase "the cost of everything and the value of nothing" springs to mind and I'm pretty sure that most of them know that £23million is a hell of a lot of money to gamble on a car and the fact that you need another punter just as daft as you in order to turn a profit.