Re: The General Election Thread : Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:34 pm  

I've always voted Labour and I've chosen Labour on here, but I have toyed with the idea of voting for the Greens. I don't entirely agree with their stance on energy (I'm pro fracking for example), but other than that their policies are probably the closest to what I believe in.

However the reality is that it's as good as a spoiled ballot and whilst Labour aren't much to shout about they are the only party with a chance of ousting the Tories.

That said I won't lose any sleep regardless of who wins. Unless it's UKIP, in which case I'm moving as far away from this country as possible.

Re: The General Election Thread : Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:58 pm  

Party politics really doesn't work does it. I'm University educated, I have a Masters, I've worked for some big companies over the past 15 years. Do I consider myself to know enough to make a rational judgement about who to vote for? Can I decipher the myriad of playground jibes and propaganda? Can I balls, I'm as ignorant as everyone else. So how can most people know enough to vote? The truth is they don't. Most have a default colour. Be it Blue, Red or Yellow, they feel they 'should' vote for that party because of their upbringing and the bias imposed by it. They can spew off a list of stereotyped default positions for each party to suit their argument. The Conservatives abuse the poor and working class and destroy/privatise the NHS and help the rich or reward success depending where you stand, Labour stand up for the working class and keep the NHS magnificent and free or reward lazy unemployment as a career. Can they actually list three main policies the party they are voting for are going with this time? Can they reconcile their own beliefs on the welfare state, the economy, taxation or immigration with the most suitable vote? The majority don't even try. So what does voting for a party prove? I voted blue in the poll, if nothing else purely because I've had an argument tonight with the in laws about how their views on how Labour would solve the financial crisis by putting it back to what is was before the Conservatives got in. No real logic behind it, they just would as they are like Robin Hood and they'd take all the money back from the bankers and Pakistanis/Polish that had come and taken it over the last 5 years.

Re: The General Election Thread : Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:06 pm  

Mr. Zucchini Head wrote:

I don't entirely agree with their stance on energy (I'm pro fracking for example)

Why are you pro-fracking? Which areas of the country do you feel it would appropriate for? How would you dispose of the waste water?

Re: The General Election Thread : Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:09 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Party politics really doesn't work does it. I'm University educated, I have a Masters, I've worked for some big companies over the past 15 years. Do I consider myself to know enough to make a rational judgement about who to vote for? Can I decipher the myriad of playground jibes and propaganda? Can I balls, I'm as ignorant as everyone else. So how can most people know enough to vote? The truth is they don't. Most have a default colour. Be it Blue, Red or Yellow, they feel they 'should' vote for that party because of their upbringing and the bias imposed by it. They can spew off a list of stereotyped default positions for each party to suit their argument. The Conservatives abuse the poor and working class and destroy/privatise the NHS and help the rich or reward success depending where you stand, Labour stand up for the working class and keep the NHS magnificent and free or reward lazy unemployment as a career. Can they actually list three main policies the party they are voting for are going with this time? Can they reconcile their own beliefs on the welfare state, the economy, taxation or immigration with the most suitable vote? The majority don't even try. So what does voting for a party prove? I voted blue in the poll, if nothing else purely because I've had an argument tonight with the in laws about how their views on how Labour would solve the financial crisis by putting it back to what is was before the Conservatives got in. No real logic behind it, they just would as they are like Robin Hood and they'd take all the money back from the bankers and Pakistanis/Polish that had come and taken it over the last 5 years.

If someone like you can't understand and decide how to vote, what hope for the rest of us?

[DaveO]

Re: The General Election Thread : Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:37 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Party politics really doesn't work does it. I'm University educated, I have a Masters, I've worked for some big companies over the past 15 years. Do I consider myself to know enough to make a rational judgement about who to vote for? Can I decipher the myriad of playground jibes and propaganda? Can I balls, I'm as ignorant as everyone else. So how can most people know enough to vote?

Give over. Any person as educated as you are can educate themselves on the issues of the day and form a view, if they want to.

Unfortunately a lot of people are lazy and so listen to headlines taking them as the gospel truth. The spin doctors have worked this out and have long since realised slinging mud even if it is completely untrue works because mud sticks and subsequent denials by the other party are lost in the fog.

If you are telling me you can't spot tactics such as this I don't believe you. If you are not prepared yourself to see if there is any truth behind the headlines/spin that is your problem but the idea you can not "decipher the myriad of playground jibes and propaganda" doesn't wash.

[DaveO]

Re: The General Election Thread : Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:01 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

I know that to some it comes down to party issues and that to some its a very passionate affair, personally I see nothing between the parties anyway (not like it was when I first started to vote) and so that being the case its only down to who I want as a representative and the incumbent has proved that he is worthy of continuing in the job.

If your incumbent is Conservative or Lib Dem you place more stock in what they do locally then how they vote on issues such as the bedroom tax and privatising the NHS?

Do you not think the fact he may have organised a bus pass for a pensioner pales into insignificance if he voted for the Bedrooms tax for example?

Why wouldn't an MP from a different party be equally effective locally but vote in parliament more in tune with your general views on wider issues?

In my area we have Tory MP. He came out in support of us when we campaigned against the local Tory council imposing transportation costs for disabled children to school post 16.

It still went ahead and if I were a cynic I'd say he knew it would and so could indulge in a bit of populism at zero cost to his parties position locally. Why would I say that? Well because I looked at his voting record in parliament and he has not once rebelled against or even spoken against any socially regressive legislation imposed by the government.

And that shows you are not voting for a local councillor but an MP.

An MP whose votes in parliament will affect you more than anything they do on a local level. Even in the unlikely event he votes against a government of his party because the policy would be bad locally it won't make a jot of difference because his will be the party of government and it will therefore have the majority to overrule his wishes. I am sure it will look good locally just as my MP's actions looked good but that is all it would be. Window dressing.

As I said you are not voting for a local councillor but an MP and if you want to make a reasoned judgement about who to vote for and not one based on tribal party loyalty then look at their voting record in the House and what the party he belongs to stands for.

If you do that and he is a Tory or Lib Dem I honestly can't see how you could vote for them if you have one iota of social conscience given what has happened to the disabled and disadvantage over the past five years regardless of what he has done locally.

Re: The General Election Thread : Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:03 pm  

DaveO wrote:

Give over. Any person as educated as you are can educate themselves on the issues of the day and form a view, if they want to.

Unfortunately a lot of people are lazy and so listen to headlines taking them as the gospel truth. The spin doctors have worked this out and have long since realised slinging mud even if it is completely untrue works because mud sticks and subsequent denials by the other party are lost in the fog.

If you are telling me you can't spot tactics such as this I don't believe you. If you are not prepared yourself to see if there is any truth behind the headlines/spin that is your problem but the idea you can not "decipher the myriad of playground jibes and propaganda" doesn't wash.

Well that's my point, people are too lazy, myself included. It's not easy to interpret what each party is going for in terms of their approach to the big policies this time, none of the parties are going into any real depth about them. Try it out, ask a couple of people who they are voting for, then ask them why, most won't know. Most people who aren't too lazy are too busy, which supports my point. A huge percentage of those voting won't really know why or understand what they are voting for on each key issue. The parties at the moment are doing very little to get their policies across to the people, fuelling the switch off most people have around politics. People care about policies but are not being given anything to get engaged by. Huge sums are spent on branding, marketing and PR and I'd bet most people haven't a clue what is going on.

Re: The General Election Thread : Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:46 pm  

DaveO wrote:

If your incumbent is Conservative or Lib Dem you place more stock in what they do locally then how they vote on issues such as the bedroom tax and privatising the NHS?

Do you not think the fact he may have organised a bus pass for a pensioner pales into insignificance if he voted for the Bedrooms tax for example?

Why wouldn't an MP from a different party be equally effective locally but vote in parliament more in tune with your general views on wider issues?

In my area we have Tory MP. He came out in support of us when we campaigned against the local Tory council imposing transportation costs for disabled children to school post 16.

It still went ahead and if I were a cynic I'd say he knew it would and so could indulge in a bit of populism at zero cost to his parties position locally. Why would I say that? Well because I looked at his voting record in parliament and he has not once rebelled against or even spoken against any socially regressive legislation imposed by the government.

And that shows you are not voting for a local councillor but an MP.

An MP whose votes in parliament will affect you more than anything they do on a local level. Even in the unlikely event he votes against a government of his party because the policy would be bad locally it won't make a jot of difference because his will be the party of government and it will therefore have the majority to overrule his wishes. I am sure it will look good locally just as my MP's actions looked good but that is all it would be. Window dressing.

As I said you are not voting for a local councillor but an MP and if you want to make a reasoned judgement about who to vote for and not one based on tribal party loyalty then look at their voting record in the House and what the party he belongs to stands for.

If you do that and he is a Tory or Lib Dem I honestly can't see how you could vote for them if you have one iota of social conscience given what has happened to the disabled and disadvantage over the past five years regardless of what he has done locally.

We've had the discussion before and I know you are passionate about the party political system that currently exists so I sort of expected your post

The incumbent that we have has proved his worth in working for local and national issues, in fact he was one of two MP's (the other was a Labour MP) who on the second to last day of parliament saw a bill of theirs passed into law (pub fair/market rents) which is by any reckoning a national concern and not bad at all for a back bench proposal.

Anyway, the Labrador puppy in this house has just eaten the Labour candidates newsletter this morning so I still don't know what his name is

Re: The General Election Thread : Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:49 pm  

Dally wrote:

Why are you pro-fracking? Which areas of the country do you feel it would appropriate for? How would you dispose of the waste water?

I'm pro fracking firstly for selfish reasons. I work for a company that would benefit massively from fracking. Indeed we are in the middle of a project that will see us ship liquid ethane from the states because it's much cheaper than using North Sea gas.

The plant I used to work on shut down last year because we couldn't compete with the U.S., China etc. Their production costs are tiny compared to ours. Unless someone finds a cheaper and more sustainable fuel source, industry will continue to die in this country.

Is it the perfect solution? Probably not, there are certainly risks involved, but there's always a safe way of doing things. You hear horror stories in America, but their standards are pretty slack to say the least, and much of it is scaremongering anyway.

[DaveO]

Re: The General Election Thread : Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:26 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

We've had the discussion before and I know you are passionate about the party political system that currently exists so I sort of expected your post

What I am passionate about is people voting from an informed position (hence my other reply to this thread) as to what is likely to happen if they vote for a particular party (because that is what you really are voting for) should that party gain power because despite whatever pet single issue registers with some people, you can damn well guarantee they will be affected a lot more by what any government does in power over many other issues.

I am pretty sure for those that follow politics think Charles Walker, the chairman of the procedure committee who rebelled against the governments attempt to change rules for voting for the Speaker on the last day seems a bit if a hero for voting against the government and for his speech but if you look at his voting record he has supported every nasty policy going. Hope he loses his seat!

You really are not voting for your MP but for a party and that parties policies on many issues so whatever good your MP has done on the one issue you mentioned if he is Tory or Lib dem he needs to be removed!