Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:44 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

I personally think most politicians are a pretty poor group who will accept grace and favour from anyone. No doubt you would support repealing of union legislation if Corbyn had got in. What is the difference between Labour giving favours to their funders and the Tories giving favours to theirs?

What a bizarre comparison.
The Tories are giving contracts and favours to their friends and family, how on earth is this comparable with repealing SOME union legislation.
There is no doubt hat the unions still have major influence over some of Labour's policy decisions but, your comparison is still rather desperate.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:35 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

What a bizarre comparison.
The Tories are giving contracts and favours to their friends and family, how on earth is this comparable with repealing SOME union legislation.
There is no doubt hat the unions still have major influence over some of Labour's policy decisions but, your comparison is still rather desperate.

Giving billions of pounds of taxpayers money to their friends and family is EXACTLY the same as changing the laws to give workers more power against employers. It's obvious innit!

Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:50 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

Both Cameron and Clegg lost their political careers for their failings and Blair is reviled in the history books for his. (Clegg, to be fair, was junior partner in a coalition which inevitably involved negotiating to secure only some of his party's priorities, although I agree they focussed on the wrong ones in the negotiations).

All faced electoral consequences for what they did wrong (Cameron jumped first rather than face up to his epic disasters).

I believe it's an overly cynical view to say all politicians are liars, most simply can't deliver what they genuinely want to.
Either way, it's irrelevant what leaders of the past have done if you refuse to demand high - or any - standards from the current leadership.

I never said all politicians are liars. The tragic consequences of Blair’s lies was the death of thousands of people, also destabilising the Middle East.
Your comment that it’s irrelevant what past leaders have done is unbelievable. You certainly have a unique view of life.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:15 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

I never said all politicians are liars. The tragic consequences of Blair’s lies was the death of thousands of people, also destabilising the Middle East.
Your comment that it’s irrelevant what past leaders have done is unbelievable. You certainly have a unique view of life.

You don't seem to be able to understand a dependent clause and for that I am truly sorry.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:15 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

You don't seem to be able to understand a dependent clause and for that I am truly sorry.

TBF not many people would. Are all your thoughts complete?

Re: Wizened old socialists : Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:13 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

You don't seem to be able to understand a dependent clause and for that I am truly sorry.

Absolutely no need to apologise, we are truly grateful for an intellectual giant to drop in and lecture us on the vagaries of the English language.
You may be able to help me with another matter, some braggart was on here the other day boasting about being the author of two books.
What’s the correct social etiquette response to this outstanding achievement, prostration on the ground in sheer admiration?

Re: Wizened old socialists : Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:07 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

What a bizarre comparison.
The Tories are giving contracts and favours to their friends and family, how on earth is this comparable with repealing SOME union legislation.
There is no doubt hat the unions still have major influence over some of Labour's policy decisions but, your comparison is still rather desperate.

Who stands to gain from either decision - it is the funders of both of these parties. The unions gain significantly more than just mere money - they gain power and influence which would be far more costly than anything the Tories have given away. Unions were suggesting 15% pay increase in the NHS - that would cost c£5bn a year and that would be just for starters especially if Labour nationalised everything!!. As sleazy as the Tories have been those costs are dwarfed by these numbers

Sometimes I struggle to understand your one dimensional thought process and Ghost too - but perhaps as a non-lefty I am no privy to that higher level of thinking (sic)

Re: Wizened old socialists : Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:19 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Who stands to gain from either decision - it is the funders of both of these parties.

You think the people who stand to benefit from a pay rise for NHS workers aren't primarily the people who would get a pay rise? Most of whom don't earn very much??

Your point remains a ridiculous false equivalency I'm afraid.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:05 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

You think the people who stand to benefit from a pay rise for NHS workers aren't primarily the people who would get a pay rise? Most of whom don't earn very much??

Your point remains a ridiculous false equivalency I'm afraid.

Who pays for it - no doubt ordinary tax payers - it has to be funded somehow?

It wont only be the NHS it will all public sector - do you think the likes of Unison, GMB and Unite are going to accept 0% when the NHS has had 15%? - your point remains naive and typical of your inability to see the wider picture - pretty typical of the vast majority of your posts.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:36 am  

The unions wil ask for a 10% pay increase for public sector workers (that isn't including teachers, or the NHS, as they're negotiated separately), as they do every year, but they will receive between 1% and 2%, as they do most years. They received a 2.5% annual increase a couple of years ago, which is the highest increase by far since the early 2000s.
Yes, unions have influence over the public sector, but the power they actually have is greatly overstated.