Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:26 pm  

DHM wrote:

I want to hear one of these "Fact" facts.

You are doomed to burn in the fires of Hell. FACT.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:53 pm  

Just to show I'm no scientific evangelist... http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 3509a.html I've read a few articles recently on things like this. Most biological academic research cannot be reproduced in commercial labs and the industry is getting pretty worried by the garbage being churned out. The feeling is that academic research is now motivated too much by money, to the point where contradictory results are shelved or ignored, only "impact" results are published and peer review is now innefective. Scientists are people and too many labs are out to make a name for themselves or sell what they do to business for big returns. Read the comments to that article - some solid opinions. I've nearly 25 years in the industry at many levels and I have never had that much faith in peer review. I'm not the only one either. I read a paper by one of our customers that was so awful it wouldn't have managed a pass at GCSE, yet it got published. They made so many mistakes in the method that the results were utterly meaningless. When you then add a set of truly colossal egos, a back scratching culture that would make the Mason's look open and big grants, that's what happens with human beings. Good science is about being sceptical and dilligently reproducing your results and evidence again and again. There is a saying that you can't prove a hypothesis, you can only disprove it with 100% certainty. Scepticism and evidence are the last thing on the minds of the religious, these are two concepts beyond their understanding. Faith is all they need.

Just to show I'm no scientific evangelist... http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 3509a.html I've read a few articles recently on things like this. Most biological academic research cannot be reproduced in commercial labs and the industry is getting pretty worried by the garbage being churned out. The feeling is that academic research is now motivated too much by money, to the point where contradictory results are shelved or ignored, only "impact" results are published and peer review is now innefective. Scientists are people and too many labs are out to make a name for themselves or sell what they do to business for big returns. Read the comments to that article - some solid opinions. I've nearly 25 years in the industry at many levels and I have never had that much faith in peer review. I'm not the only one either. I read a paper by one of our customers that was so awful it wouldn't have managed a pass at GCSE, yet it got published. They made so many mistakes in the method that the results were utterly meaningless. When you then add a set of truly colossal egos, a back scratching culture that would make the Mason's look open and big grants, that's what happens with human beings. Good science is about being sceptical and dilligently reproducing your results and evidence again and again. There is a saying that you can't prove a hypothesis, you can only disprove it with 100% certainty. Scepticism and evidence are the last thing on the minds of the religious, these are two concepts beyond their understanding. Faith is all they need.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:22 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

You can stop your absurd rhetorical bullshit. You haven't, and won't, answer any questions. That's a fact.

Perhaps you could repeat here then. Let's get this sorted once and for all. You can, of course, choose not to.

Tosh. Scientists look at data scientifically. That would of course include, if there were any evidence of a god or gods, god. They do not remove god. There is no evidence of god.

Scientists come with baggage - their rejection of almighty God.

You correctly identify the belief in god as "baggage" and again correctly realise that this baggage hinders any rational examination of evidence, as the result has to include a god, and that obviously pre-excludes any explanation that excludes god. In other words, if the truth does not include god, then they could never reach it.

I admit it is baggage. We all look at the evidence with our own biases. Mine just happens to be right.

I don't know. I can't think of a single example. perhaps you could post some links to this bizarre claim?

The hopping around of the age of the Earth?

Nice straw man, but I have not done so.

I didn't say that you had, I was pre-empting your response. That is not a straw man.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:23 pm  

Gareth1984 wrote:

opinion/waffle

Meh, all opinion.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:23 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

I admit it is baggage. We all look at the evidence with our own biases. Mine just happens to be right.

brainwashed

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:26 pm  

DHM wrote:

I want to hear one of these "Fact" facts.

I can give you many:

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

And God said, “Let there be an expanse[a] in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” And God made[b] the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. And God called the expanse Heaven.[c] And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. God called the dry land Earth,[d] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[e] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons,[f] and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds[g] fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.

And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Then God said, “Let us make man[h] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:30 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

not a single scrap of fact/evidence or even sense

[Kosh]

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:55 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

Scientists come with baggage - their rejection of almighty God.

I see that you're still choosing to ignore the fact that there are many scientists who believe in God. Is that deliberate or are you just a bit hard of thinking?

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:07 pm  

Kosh wrote:

I see that you're still choosing to ignore the fact that there are many scientists who believe in God. Is that deliberate or are you just a bit hard of thinking?

They don't really believe in God. Name me one reputable scientist who has been born again.

Not that believing in God gets you to Heaven, mind.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:09 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

You are doomed to burn in the fires of Hell. FACT.

We all are.