Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Fri May 08, 2020 10:17 am  

Jukesays wrote:

I'll tell you how I know, I talk to them (On the phone) for example
A few of them even have WhatsApp and they are in the groups I'm in

I also cut the bowling green twice a week - and as people are walking past either on their daily walks or if they are fully isolating I here messages from their pals etc.

"Wanting" to go out is no excuse for actually going out
I "Want" to go out, I also don't want to be killed, kill anyone else (Only realised yesterday my wife is classed as vulnerable due to a previous Lung illness) or pass it on to anyone else who in turn could pass it onto one of their loved ones who may be seriously ill or die.

And you have the audacity to ask me how I know what they think - Yet your comeback is "most want to make the most of what life they have left - stuck in isolation for months on end is no quality of life it is just an existence" which is worse than anecdotal!!

I'll tell you what I'll do if you want?
There's 11/12 players who regularly turn up for Monday night Bowling - (Obviously the opposing team would bring similar numbers)
I'll contact them ALL if you want - I'll ask them - Do you want to play Monday without any assurances that their friends/other teams players have been tested or clear etc.
I can tell you now for a Fact I've spoke to 5/6 of them or so and they wouldn't in a million years go out currently due to their personal circumstances (1x 55 yr old ish is the carer for his 80+ year old mother for example).

You don't want to listen to what others "Think or say" but quite Happy to tell us what "Most" want.
What about all the people that have to be out of lockdown so that these people can come out of their "Purgatory" and service their life? The bus drivers/Shop staff/Pub owners etc. etc. Are they All still willing to risk it?

Recent Poll - Most people are still wary of lifting restrictions
Personally - It shouldn't matter what they want, it should be what's best

Anyway - Did you watch Bojo's Superman Speech? The one I mentioned a week or so ago - Ask him how we are going to meet this head on, step up to the challenge, be like Superman and take advantage of this situation.
Ask him if he still feels it's ok to keep shaking hands, meeting people and not social distancing after his experiences.

Just like Trump they were arrogant to the situation and the risks associated - It won't affect us, were too good/educated/advanced a country for it to affect us!
Result - Well to "Most" people, Not Great (See what I did there)
To some who may not have to attended numerous funerals (I went to one yesterday and it's my cousins, the paramedics tomorrow - he would have been 49 yesterday) this is just an inconvenience and a nuisance stopping us being Financially Happy. I'm sorry to say I do agree a bit with this, but end of the day we would have done more earlier, we should be doing more now IMO and we need to do more in the future. And just because were losing out more financially now should it mean we repeat the mistakes of the past.

PS
The funeral I went to yesterday was a family friend (My Mother & Father in law's best friend)
We dropped a card off last week - then rang her from the car - Her words :- "The silly Bugger got what he deserved, He said this won't stop him going out doing stuff etc.".
Well I'll tell you what, his last 10 days were AWFUL - He was that ill they couldn't even intubate him

Bet he's glad he "Carried on like Superman".

You might think your bowling club is the oracle of public opinion - even GMB this morning had their resident Dr on who confirmed what I said "There is growing pressure from the over 70's who are fit and healthy to be given more freedom" - is he talking rubbish as well? This is not an isolated case it has been on most news this week as the talk of easing lockdown increases. They just want to live a life like the rest of us - go to the supermarket go out for walks etc. Where did I ever mention opening bars/restaurants?

This has got nothing to do with finance this is about quality of life - especially when your lifespan is limited

You seem very unfortunate in your family dying of this virus and all so young?

[Mild Rover]

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Fri May 08, 2020 10:28 am  

Excess mortality is the best we can currently compare between countries, imo. https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comm ... omparisons Although I don’t much care for Johnson and have mixed feelings about Cummings, they’re two largely fungible dudes in the greater scheme and while, with hindsight they probably misjudged the benefit-risk early on and some of Johnson’s laid back statements are painful to read now, they were working with a very limited evidence base. The underlying issues, they inherited - albeit from previous Conservative governments. And much of it will be more structural than political. I’d be curious to know the proportion of elderly people living in care homes across other countries vs the UK. The excess mortality there has been massive in the UK.

Excess mortality is the best we can currently compare between countries, imo. https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comm ... omparisons Although I don’t much care for Johnson and have mixed feelings about Cummings, they’re two largely fungible dudes in the greater scheme and while, with hindsight they probably misjudged the benefit-risk early on and some of Johnson’s laid back statements are painful to read now, they were working with a very limited evidence base. The underlying issues, they inherited - albeit from previous Conservative governments. And much of it will be more structural than political. I’d be curious to know the proportion of elderly people living in care homes across other countries vs the UK. The excess mortality there has been massive in the UK.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Fri May 08, 2020 11:50 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

You might think your bowling club is the oracle of public opinion - even GMB this morning had their resident Dr on who confirmed what I said "There is growing pressure from the over 70's who are fit and healthy to be given more freedom" - is he talking rubbish as well? This is not an isolated case it has been on most news this week as the talk of easing lockdown increases. They just want to live a life like the rest of us - go to the supermarket go out for walks etc. Where did I ever mention opening bars/restaurants?

This has got nothing to do with finance this is about quality of life - especially when your lifespan is limited

You seem very unfortunate in your family dying of this virus and all so young?

You said that most older people want to go out etc and are not bothered about dying if that's the consequence.
I'm sure loads of over 70s or even everyone in general want to go out more, we all do.
The issue is about it being safe to do so and how it affects other people not just themselves. Remember flattening the curve, making sure our NHS had enough capacity etc.
Theyve ballsed this up the first time round, each person will have their own perspective on that and tibwhat extent, they cant make it again.

Simeone said to me that all these young uns flouting the rules was a disgrace, and if it was the older ones theyd do what it takes to protect the young. Is that not true?

They can go out, they can take their hourly walk or so, they can go into their back gardens etc. They can go shopping when needed.
As you say they dont have many other places to go unless those places open up, what will that mean?

As for my family members dying, he was 48 (would have been 49 last Wednesday).
My mother and father in laws best friend was about 68/69.
Not sure what point you were trying to make, other than I may be lying?
PS
At the funeral my uncle told me about 2 of his mates that have died in the last 6 days of the virus (I knew them vaguely). They were both 70ish and over, is this ok?
Wonder what they and their relatives would think?

PS did you watch the Bojo superman thing I mentioned?
I watched the I terview also where he carried on shaking hands with people with coronavirus and eveyotng should just "Carry on'.
Wonder how he felt when lying on that bed thinking he may die???

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Sun May 10, 2020 12:43 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

You said that most older people want to go out etc and are not bothered about dying if that's the consequence.
I'm sure loads of over 70s or even everyone in general want to go out more, we all do.
The issue is about it being safe to do so and how it affects other people not just themselves. Remember flattening the curve, making sure our NHS had enough capacity etc.
Theyve ballsed this up the first time round, each person will have their own perspective on that and tibwhat extent, they cant make it again.

Simeone said to me that all these young uns flouting the rules was a disgrace, and if it was the older ones theyd do what it takes to protect the young. Is that not true?

They can go out, they can take their hourly walk or so, they can go into their back gardens etc. They can go shopping when needed.
As you say they dont have many other places to go unless those places open up, what will that mean?

As for my family members dying, he was 48 (would have been 49 last Wednesday).
My mother and father in laws best friend was about 68/69.
Not sure what point you were trying to make, other than I may be lying?
PS
At the funeral my uncle told me about 2 of his mates that have died in the last 6 days of the virus (I knew them vaguely). They were both 70ish and over, is this ok?
Wonder what they and their relatives would think?

PS did you watch the Bojo superman thing I mentioned?
I watched the I terview also where he carried on shaking hands with people with coronavirus and eveyotng should just "Carry on'.
Wonder how he felt when lying on that bed thinking he may die???

It was a genuine comment - you have been unlucky - stats suggest chances of dying of Covid under 50 is no greater than normal life - I don't know anyone who has died of Covid.

What the old are saying - if general media is correct - they understand the risks - they are not even supposed to go out for a walk or go to the supermarket for 12 weeks - they simply want the opportunity to get out of the house and live as normal a life as the rest of us given we are in lockdown.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Sun May 10, 2020 2:25 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

It was a genuine comment - you have been unlucky - stats suggest chances of dying of Covid under 50 is no greater than normal life - I don't know anyone who has died of Covid.

What the old are saying - if general media is correct - they understand the risks - they are not even supposed to go out for a walk or go to the supermarket for 12 weeks - they simply want the opportunity to get out of the house and live as normal a life as the rest of us given we are in lockdown.

I’m not aware that over 70’s are on a 12 week complete stay at home - that’s just for the high risk “shielded” who have had a letter isn’t it

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Sun May 10, 2020 2:45 pm  

ColD wrote:

I’m not aware that over 70’s are on a 12 week complete stay at home - that’s just for the high risk “shielded” who have had a letter isn’t it

Yes, you're correct

"At the moment, the rules for this group are not different, so they are allowed out to take exercise or can leave their homes to go to work if they cannot work from home, but they are strongly advised to "take particular care""

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Sun May 10, 2020 4:07 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

It was a genuine comment - you have been unlucky - stats suggest chances of dying of Covid under 50 is no greater than normal life - I don't know anyone who has died of Covid.

What the old are saying - if general media is correct - they understand the risks - they are not even supposed to go out for a walk or go to the supermarket for 12 weeks - they simply want the opportunity to get out of the house and live as normal a life as the rest of us given we are in lockdown.

Well that's not true Is it?
They can go out unless they are "Vulnerable".
So what would they be doing if they could "carry on" or whatever it is you think they want to "carry on" doing?
They wouldn't be able to do anything different than what they're doing now unless all the other age groups start opening things up for them.

39% of deaths 60-79
9% of deaths 40 -59

Not an insignificant amount i would say?
Our own prime minister is what? 54/55 ish and they were making plans for his death werent they?
Remember, this is with a large scale lockdown, what would it have been like without it?
The hospitals around Cheltenham experienced 2 to 3 times more covid traffic 2 weeks after the festival, as did liverpool after the CL game.
That's akin to what would happen if we were to release lockdown too early.

Your original statement IMO implied that the majority of over 70s wanted to go out no matter the risks (and you used your parents as an example).
My 70+ aged uncles and aunties, the Bowlers and plenty more I've spoken to accept that even though they may "want" to go out, it isnt the best thing to do yet.
And unless they let all the 60 plus age group out and keep the under 60s on lockdown then it wont be safe for them. Because the ones who arent dying are still passing it on to those that statistically may.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Sun May 10, 2020 6:52 pm  

All sorted.
You can sit on park benches and go back to work if you oil your bicycle chain.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Sun May 10, 2020 7:03 pm  

The country has been asking for a plan, they now have it, with conditions.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Sun May 10, 2020 7:04 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

All sorted.
You can sit on park benches and go back to work if you oil your bicycle chain.

The Tories love bicycles.