Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:14 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You say that the "public didnt believe them" and you are right. However, if the remain "propaganda" was all lies, please explain why pretty much all politicians (apart from the hardcore leavers) dont want a "no deal" Brexit.

IF Mrs May, bumles along, still hoping for her deal (plus a few tweaks) can get through and we end up with no deal, I think you may find the prophecy of "project fear" to be a hell of a lot more accurate than you believe.

Let's all hope that it doesn't come to that or, you may just see a shrinking ecconomy (its not exactly growing at the moment) and certain taxes already look like they will need to increase as our logal government services are all cut to the bone (and beyond), policing is in crisis.

The problem with many leavers is the belief of a utopian future, hich, even after 2 years, NOBODY has been able to put forward a decent arguement to substantiate, NOBODY.

It would sure make life interesting though

Most MPs don't want to leave at all - so any kind of leave is bad a no deal leave is catastrophic for them

The MPs will not allow a no deal so that is not an option worth discussing. What happens if we have another vote and again the original is upheld then the only option is a hard-style Brexit

Germany the beacon of Europe is just about to go in to a recession so our economy is not performing really badly when compared to other EU countries. The squeeze on public financing has nothing to with Brexit its a relic of the financial crash.

Nobody is suggesting in the short term it will be tough but longer term surely it would benefit any country to have the flexibility to do trade deals themselves, issue their own laws and agree their own fiscal policies etc. There are plenty of countries that trade very successfully with the EU that are not members so why should we not be able to achieve that? Nobody appears to have modelled the longer view - perhaps its simply too difficult - let's face it the BOE changes its outlook every quarter.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:35 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Most MPs don't want to leave at all - so any kind of leave is bad a no deal leave is catastrophic for them

The MPs will not allow a no deal so that is not an option worth discussing. What happens if we have another vote and again the original is upheld then the only option is a hard-style Brexit

Germany the beacon of Europe is just about to go in to a recession so our economy is not performing really badly when compared to other EU countries. The squeeze on public financing has nothing to with Brexit its a relic of the financial crash.

Nobody is suggesting in the short term it will be tough but longer term surely it would benefit any country to have the flexibility to do trade deals themselves, issue their own laws and agree their own fiscal policies etc. There are plenty of countries that trade very successfully with the EU that are not members so why should we not be able to achieve that? Nobody appears to have modelled the longer view - perhaps its simply too difficult - let's face it the BOE changes its outlook every quarter.

You say that most countires will be able to negotiate abetter trade deal by themselves ? Why ?
If you go to the negotiating table with a spen of 500k comapared to entering negotiations with a spend of 5bn, how the hell does this improve your chances of a better deal.
There may be some limited opportunities to negotiate bespoke deals but, overall, I disagree.

There was talk from Farage (and Trump) of getting an early trade deal with the US but, with Trump at the helm, I dont fancy our chances and the rest, please do tell and give us an inkling of how far progressed we are with any of these arrangements or, just how long before they will be in place.
It may wall be that, once out of the EU (assuming that we leave), we still end up on WTO terms with the vast majority of other nations until we actually somt our own deals.

I dont see things going that way but, i'd still be interested in your outlook

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:48 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Nobody is suggesting in the short term it will be tough but longer term surely it would benefit any country to have the flexibility to do trade deals themselves,

The basic rules of economics argue against that. As any capitalist should know.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:39 pm  

tigertot wrote:

The basic rules of economics argue against that. As any capitalist should know.

As I have said earlier - there are plenty of country with a far smaller GDP than the UK that have managed to do very workable trade deals with the EU - so why shouldn't we?

Are you saying there are no countries that are smaller than the whole of the EU that don't trade on similar or better deals with say the US than the EU?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:41 pm  

tigertot wrote:

The basic rules of economics argue against that. As any capitalist should know.

The thing about economics is that is isn't an exact science - as we see from Brexit - economists are not all in agreement as to the outcome if/when we leave.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:55 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

As I have said earlier - there are plenty of country with a far smaller GDP than the UK that have managed to do very workable trade deals with the EU - so why shouldn't we?

Are you saying there are no countries that are smaller than the whole of the EU that don't trade on similar or better deals with say the US than the EU?

Please list these countries, along with the terms of the agreements

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:09 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

As I have said earlier - there are plenty of country with a far smaller GDP than the UK that have managed to do very workable trade deals with the EU - so why shouldn't we?

Are you saying there are no countries that are smaller than the whole of the EU that don't trade on similar or better deals with say the US than the EU?

Surely the test for the UK, when it has left the EU, is to achieve a range of trade deals which are BETTER OVERALL than what we currently have ?? or was this just another lie that everyone knew about ?

We had media overload form "leave" telling us of endless opportunities and reduced tarrifs on everything that the UK currently takes form the EU.

Go on, you can admit it now, they were just talking boll****

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:26 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

As I have said earlier - there are plenty of country with a far smaller GDP than the UK that have managed to do very workable trade deals with the EU - so why shouldn't we?

Are you saying there are no countries that are smaller than the whole of the EU that don't trade on similar or better deals with say the US than the EU?

I would say the bulk trading power of the EU gives it a massive overall advantage over any country on the planet. As you well know. Sure you can find the odd deal between a couple of countries that has better terms. It also makes sense on other grounds to trade with nearer neighbours. As you well know.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:44 pm  

I do wish that May would offer to rule out no deal, to the extent that she can, if Corbyn in return rules out no Brexit, to the extent that he can.

After two and a half years, you’d have thought we might have managed to narrow the options a little. Tbf, May cracked right on with it but didn’t take anybody with her.

Still, good times for people who draw infographics for a living.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:56 pm  

Ruune Rebellion wrote:

Please list these countries, along with the terms of the agreements

Canada/Mexico and the US