Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:45 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

... I'm presently listening to 23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism ...

A good book.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:46 am  

It's really easy being a politician, just get the press in your back pocket, feed them some convoluted lies, then let the blame rest entirely at your oppositions feet while you just sit back and watch the bunfight... http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/20/keogh-apology-burnham-tory-smear-hospital-deaths Sir Bruce Keogh has learned much in the past six months, he has learned that politicians will take an academic report dealing with complex issues and a disputed calculation model, and turn it into newspaper fodder and ammunition to beat someone else with, even if thats not what your academic report said.

It's really easy being a politician, just get the press in your back pocket, feed them some convoluted lies, then let the blame rest entirely at your oppositions feet while you just sit back and watch the bunfight... http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/20/keogh-apology-burnham-tory-smear-hospital-deaths Sir Bruce Keogh has learned much in the past six months, he has learned that politicians will take an academic report dealing with complex issues and a disputed calculation model, and turn it into newspaper fodder and ammunition to beat someone else with, even if thats not what your academic report said.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:58 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

It's really easy being a politician, just get the press in your back pocket, feed them some convoluted lies, then let the blame rest entirely at your oppositions feet while you just sit back and watch the bunfight...

It's impossible being a politician when you're operating in a soundbite and headline deep political culture.

The Tories have rolled a BS bomb under the Labour party over this. I don't think there's any doubt about this. But do you think that Labour don't employ this tactic as well?

The medical director of the NHS, Sir Bruce Keogh, has privately apologised to the shadow health secretary, Andy Burnham, over the Tories' "political operation" to use his report into the death rates at 14 hospital trusts as an attack on Labour's record.

NHS medical director Sir Bruce Keogh is said to be furious about the Conservative 'political operation' concerning his report into deaths at hospital trusts.

Sir Bruce Keogh private apologised. He's *said* to be furious.

How about a public berating of misuse of your report. Why not give direct quotes about how furious you are, rather than being *said* to be furious.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:19 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

It's impossible being a politician when you're operating in a soundbite and headline deep political culture.

The Tories have rolled a BS bomb under the Labour party over this. I don't think there's any doubt about this. But do you think that Labour don't employ this tactic as well?

Sir Bruce Keogh private apologised. He's *said* to be furious.

How about a public berating of misuse of your report. Why not give direct quotes about how furious you are, rather than being *said* to be furious.

Maybe his access to the media is controlled - by the media who don't want to report his version ?

I'm not sure where you're located these days but here in Leeds Keogh was implicitly involved in the childrens heart surgery farce that erupted on Good Friday this year, in fact it was Keogh who ordered the suspension of duties at the unit based on what knowledge he had been given by his own enquiry team.

When it became obvious that his own enquiry team were prejudiced in their findings, to say the least, then he quickly apologised and backtracked and gave several live, unscripted interviews to the BBC in Leeds both on TV and Radio, none of which were reported in the same manner by the national media - the story was carried but not using his words of criticism towards his own enquiry team, it was almost like the story of an incompetent NHS unit that killed too many children was far more important than the fact that it wasn't true.

The constant tide of criticism towards the NHS and stories of incompetence within it are only aimed at one thing - the eventual handing over of various functions to private businesses under the banner of "improvement" and the first stage of this is to convince the public that the system is incompetent and not fit for purpose, only then will they agree that "something needs to be done" and that privatisation is "an improvement", indeed the only choice.

You may choose to not believe this now but in just under two years time this will be the angle taken in order to avoid the spectacle of Cameron having to explain what he meant by his "We'll cut the deficit not the NHS" billboard poster campaign of 2010.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:47 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Maybe his access to the media is controlled - by the media who don't want to report his version ?

So The Guardian are willing to quote un-named parties as saying that he's furious and has apologised to Burnham, but they don't want to actually speak to him?

I'm not sure where you're located these days but here in Leeds Keogh was implicitly involved in the childrens heart surgery farce that erupted on Good Friday this year, in fact it was Keogh who ordered the suspension of duties at the unit based on what knowledge he had been given by his own enquiry team.

I'm over here and have seen the fall out. It's a BS storm and BS bombs have been thrown by all sides. He's previously stepped on and set off a BS bomb. He's covered it and pretty much everyone else is too.

But IMO you're claiming that the BS bombs are only being set off by your opponents. When the truth is the both sides use them and the media thrives on it all. Your side is just getting hit with serious sounding BS bombs at this time and you're whining about it.

When it became obvious that his own enquiry team were prejudiced in their findings, to say the least, then he quickly apologised and backtracked and gave several live, unscripted interviews to the BBC in Leeds both on TV and Radio, none of which were reported in the same manner by the national media - the story was carried but not using his words of criticism towards his own enquiry team, it was almost like the story of an incompetent NHS unit that killed too many children was far more important than the fact that it wasn't true.

Keogh is delivered a ticking BS bomb by HIS team. It's clearly a massive BS bomb that if exploded would spread a huge pile of BS over EVERYBODY, INCLUDING HIM. Rather than getting in the bomb disposal squad in to check, he sets the bomb off. Everyone is covered in a lot of BS.

But the bomb disposal squad are able to look at the evidence and say that he didn't need to set the bomb off. There was an off switch right in front of him. He messed up.

So now he goes on TV, completely covered in BS and says that he was wrong before but he's got it right now and can be trusted. TV says, "Whatever, BSer, thank you for the BS bombs, but you still are covered in it and stink."

The constant tide of criticism towards the NHS and stories of incompetence within it are only aimed at one thing

See, that's a BS bomb. It's just an ineffective one.

If I need my left leg amputated and the NHS amputate my right one, that's getting in the paper and everyone agrees that they were grossly incompetent and there's a lot of explaining that needs to be done.

You can claim that story is just aiming to undermine the NHS, but it was the NHS who undermined the NHS by causing me to lose both my legs rather than one.

the eventual handing over of various functions to private businesses under the banner of "improvement" and the first stage of this is to convince the public that the system is incompetent and not fit for purpose, only then will they agree that "something needs to be done" and that privatisation is "an improvement", indeed the only choice.

I'm English. Over 3/4 of my life has been in the UK under the NHS.

Nearly 7 years of my life has been spent in the US. I think only 2 of those years were ones where I had health insurance. I'd hazard a guess that my insurance would have been proved to be an almost worthless POS if I'd ever needed it.

My wife has always needed prescriptions. Clearly, dealing with the NHS to get those prescriptions filled is infinitely cheaper in the UK than it is in the US.

I think we're edging towards the US system and it's scary that they might manage it. But IMO your political opponents would just dismiss your concerns as a lame BS bomb and diffuse it.

I don't think that our mainstream media can even begin process this issue. It is too complicated and they are just waiting for the next BS bombs to go off.

You may choose to not believe this now but in just under two years time this will be the angle taken in order to avoid the spectacle of Cameron having to explain what he meant by his "We'll cut the deficit not the NHS" billboard poster campaign of 2010.

Exactly. Cameron and his party have just placed a huge BS bomb in front of themselves.

You and the Labour party are desperately waiting in anticipation of the BS bomb exploding all over him so you can use it to get back into power.

The Tories will do whatever they can to make sure that bomb doesn't go off.

So rather than just doing whatever needs doing in a complicated situation. The Prime Minister of Great Britain is dictated to by a stupid campaign billboard pledge.

The governing of the country is not done in a sensible manner with rational politicians debating sensibly. It's fought in the news headlines with BS bombs.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:07 pm  

Jerry - On the TV thread me and Mintball got into a slight disagreement over Zimmerman. She thinks Zimmerman walked because the US is blatantly racist, I think Zimmerman should have never even been charged. IMO if the public of the USA and UK were each given a vote on whether Zimmerman went to jail or was free, Zimmerman would be jailed by both Americans and the British. I believe that is because of BS bombs. Mintball's BS bomb was the Daily Show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLxHyxtiS2s I offer Charlie Rose's 3 guests: http://www.charlierose.com/watch/60241735 The Charlie Rose show, IMO, comprehensive wipes the floor with the BS bomb of the Daily Show's lies. But completely winning the debate doesn't matter when the BS bombs work so much better.

Jerry - On the TV thread me and Mintball got into a slight disagreement over Zimmerman. She thinks Zimmerman walked because the US is blatantly racist, I think Zimmerman should have never even been charged. IMO if the public of the USA and UK were each given a vote on whether Zimmerman went to jail or was free, Zimmerman would be jailed by both Americans and the British. I believe that is because of BS bombs. Mintball's BS bomb was the Daily Show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLxHyxtiS2s I offer Charlie Rose's 3 guests: http://www.charlierose.com/watch/60241735 The Charlie Rose show, IMO, comprehensive wipes the floor with the BS bomb of the Daily Show's lies. But completely winning the debate doesn't matter when the BS bombs work so much better.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:10 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

So The Guardian are willing to ... etc

I don't understand a word of this

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:12 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: Jerry - On the TV thread me and Mintball got into a slight disagreement over Zimmerman. She thinks Zimmerman walked because the US is blatantly racist, I think Zimmerman should have never even been charged. IMO if the public of the USA and UK were each given a vote on whether Zimmerman went to jail or was free, Zimmerman would be jailed by both Americans and the British. I believe that is because of BS bombs. Mintball's BS bomb was the Daily Show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLxHyxtiS2s I offer Charlie Rose's 3 guests: http://www.charlierose.com/watch/60241735 The Charlie Rose show, IMO, comprehensive wipes the floor with the BS bomb of the Daily Show's lies. But completely winning the debate doesn't matter when the BS bombs work so much better. I read your explanation on that thread, it made sense, I changed my mind - there is so much stuff that goes unreported because the news media only want to tell you one angle, usually the angle of the paymaster or the political party that the paymaster is supporting at the time (and then sometimes they switch sides).

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: Jerry - On the TV thread me and Mintball got into a slight disagreement over Zimmerman. She thinks Zimmerman walked because the US is blatantly racist, I think Zimmerman should have never even been charged. IMO if the public of the USA and UK were each given a vote on whether Zimmerman went to jail or was free, Zimmerman would be jailed by both Americans and the British. I believe that is because of BS bombs. Mintball's BS bomb was the Daily Show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLxHyxtiS2s I offer Charlie Rose's 3 guests: http://www.charlierose.com/watch/60241735 The Charlie Rose show, IMO, comprehensive wipes the floor with the BS bomb of the Daily Show's lies. But completely winning the debate doesn't matter when the BS bombs work so much better. I read your explanation on that thread, it made sense, I changed my mind - there is so much stuff that goes unreported because the news media only want to tell you one angle, usually the angle of the paymaster or the political party that the paymaster is supporting at the time (and then sometimes they switch sides).

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:21 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

I read your explanation on that thread, it made sense, I changed my mind - there is so much stuff that goes unreported because the news media only want to tell you one angle, usually the angle of the paymaster or the political party that the paymaster is supporting at the time (and then sometimes they switch sides).

When G4S got the **** kicked out of them because of the Olympics, did you care?

When G4S got the **** kicked out of them because of over-charging for tagging, did you care?

If the kicking that G4S gets is 100 times more vicious they they actually deserve, do you care?

I don't think you do. I think you are happy that your political opponents are covered in the BS bomb.

I think the media is biased towards sensation. It doesn't matter who can be blamed for 15,000 needless UK deaths. If someone can have that pinned on them then the media will be all over it. If it's Labour NHS, Tory NHS, private hospitals, the Ford Motor Co, the media are still going to be all over it because 15,000 people dying in the UK needlessly is a pretty staggering number.

Did the rest of the media go easy on Rupert Murdoch because he's one of their group who are pushing their agenda? Did they hell. They sensed blood and they stuck their sharpened knives into him. They did that because it was a sensational media scandal and that's what they feed on.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:45 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

When G4S got the **** kicked out of them because of the Olympics, did you care?

When G4S got the **** kicked out of them because of over-charging for tagging, did you care?

If the kicking that G4S gets is 100 times more vicious they they actually deserve, do you care?

I don't think you do. I think you are happy that your political opponents are covered in the BS bomb.

I think the media is biased towards sensation. It doesn't matter who can be blamed for 15,000 needless UK deaths. If someone can have that pinned on them then the media will be all over it. If it's Labour NHS, Tory NHS, private hospitals, the Ford Motor Co, the media are still going to be all over it because 15,000 people dying in the UK needlessly is a pretty staggering number.

Did the rest of the media go easy on Rupert Murdoch because he's one of their group who are pushing their agenda? Did they hell. They sensed blood and they stuck their sharpened knives into him. They did that because it was a sensational media scandal and that's what they feed on.

PS - I don't have a "political opponent" - in the past I've voted for all three main parties, and some not-so-main ones.