[Durham Giant]

Re: rememberance : Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:25 pm  

Cronus wrote:

The reaction was due to it being a pathetic and pedantic decision. The poppy is neither religious nor political, therefore there shouldn't be an issue. And the question has to be asked - why on earth should the FA back down? Good on them for showing some balls and standing up to that corrupt organisation.

There's no danger of the poppy symbol becoming politicised unless people start throwing those accusations around and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We'd better make sure people only wear them according to your superior standards of taste in future. Can you let us know what date is acceptable to wear them next year and where we can post evidence of having donated please. I'd hate to think you were cringing at someone having the poor taste and manners to donate a quid and wear a poppy a few days too early.

That is not true the poppy may have come into being to celebrate those who died in the great war but since then has being used to raise money and support all servicemen who have fought in Britains wars ever since.

Whilst it is easy to be sympathetic to the World Wars many people feel very uncomfortable that it is still a symbol for those who fopught in the struggles to oppose Nationalist movements in the Empire from Aden, Kenya,Cyprus.

In Ireland they did not really celebrate Armistice day until a few years ago because some of those who died during WW1 were killed in Dublin putting down the Easter Rising. My Grandmas brother was in the Munster rifles fighting in WW1 for the British whilst my Grandmother and her husband were fighting afgainst the British in Dublin.

Whilst you may wish to see it as unpolitical many others do not.

Re: rememberance : Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:51 pm  

And most people – regardless of what they think of individual conflicts/interventions/wars – do not see it as a "celebration", but as a commemoration.




BTW: nice avatar, designed (in effect) by an anti-semitic, anti-worker, anti-facial hair bigot.

Symbols, eh?

Re: rememberance : Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:55 pm  

From a twitter feed on a link that tb provided on another thread:

RT @ronniejoice: Where can I complain about a BBC Radio presenter who sounds like they're not wearing a poppy?

Re: rememberance : Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:37 pm  

Durham Giant wrote:

That is not true the poppy may have come into being to celebrate those who died in the great war but since then has being used to raise money and support all servicemen who have fought in Britains wars ever since.

Whilst it is easy to be sympathetic to the World Wars many people feel very uncomfortable that it is still a symbol for those who fopught in the struggles to oppose Nationalist movements in the Empire from Aden, Kenya,Cyprus.

In Ireland they did not really celebrate Armistice day until a few years ago because some of those who died during WW1 were killed in Dublin putting down the Easter Rising. My Grandmas brother was in the Munster rifles fighting in WW1 for the British whilst my Grandmother and her husband were fighting afgainst the British in Dublin.

Whilst you may wish to see it as unpolitical many others do not.

I think most people can actually see past the political reasons behind the wars, and simply pay respect and spare a moment's thought for the servicemen and women who have served. I might not agree with a conflict, but that doesn't make me feel uncomfortable about remembering, and donating towards the services.

I'll remember Allied troops from WW2, and while I detest everything the Nazis stood for the poor lads who were forced to fight and die in WW2 for the Axis were just as much victims. Not every German soldier was a lunatic Nazi - in fact very many were unwilling conscripts, and not even German. It's a time to look past the politics to the humanity involved.

I don't agree it's a political symbol for the majority, but if people choose to tag political issues to the wearing of poppies, that's their choice. I can understand why it might be a touchy subject in Ireland and NI (as it is to some Muslim movements), but that's their viewpoint and they're entitled to it. But that doesn't mean it demeans the meaning to those who wear it for the simple reason of remembrance.

Re: rememberance : Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:00 am  

Spot on Cronus. My grandad served in the Army in the second world war, a very close friend died serving in Afghanistan a couple of years ago, an uncle served in the Falklands and suffers mentally from what he did and saw, my girlfriends grandad was Polish and was forced to serve in the German army during the war after seeing his parents and brother shot in front of him. Naturally he suffered from what he saw and did.

Whatever the politics behind any of those conflicts I will still remember them and try to honour their sacrifices in some small way and wearing a poppy on Armistice Day is a significant part of that.

Just because some people choose to think that the poppy is political doesn't actually mean it is.

Re: rememberance : Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:16 am  

today in france is a national holiday - it's not a religious or political occasion just a day for the people of france to remember all those of all nationalties who gave their lives for our freedom
In every city,town and village a service will be held to commemorate the ending of hostilities in 1918,the so called 'war to end all wars' plus to honour all the fallen in all conflicts since
the mayor of the commune or borough will read a speech prepared by Mr Sarkozy and a piper or trumpeter will play the 'Last Post' - in our commune of about 3000 people about 500 people of all ages will take part including the local brass band who will lead the procession through the town to the memorial
The service will,as always be accompanied by a minutes silence
I will wear my poppy with pride even though it will mean nothing to the locals - they have their own ways of showing respect
Lest We Not Forget - thanks to all those who died for my freedom...

Re: rememberance : Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:03 am  

Cronus wrote:

I think most people can actually see past the political reasons behind the wars ...

Very good post.

Re: rememberance : Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:19 am  

Some people need to distinguish the difference between celebration and commemoration. Politicians/religious leaders usually start the wars and the servicemen and women are the ones that go into battle to fight it out, in Britains case they are doing the deed for us via our elected representitives decisions (not in my name cannot wash in a democracy). As an ex serviceman who saw active service in the Falklands war, I wear a poppy with pride in 'commemoration' of those who have fought in ALL conflicts, especially in WW11, because without the sacrifices that those servicemen and civilians made we would not be in a position to freely debate or protest against all the wars in recent times we did not like. I wish this could be remembered, especially when some feel the need to burn poppies in hatred at their dislike of the country that gives them safe haven from danger.

[Durham Giant]

Re: rememberance : Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:32 am  

sanjunien wrote:

today in france is a national holiday - it's not a religious or political occasion just a day for the people of france to remember all those of all nationalties who gave their lives for our freedom
In every city,town and village a service will be held to commemorate the ending of hostilities in 1918,the so called 'war to end all wars' plus to honour all the fallen in all conflicts since
the mayor of the commune or borough will read a speech prepared by Mr Sarkozy and a piper or trumpeter will play the 'Last Post' - in our commune of about 3000 people about 500 people of all ages will take part including the local brass band who will lead the procession through the town to the memorial
The service will,as always be accompanied by a minutes silence
I will wear my poppy with pride even though it will mean nothing to the locals - they have their own ways of showing respect
Lest We Not Forget - thanks to all those who died for my freedom...

Yes, from what i remeber it is a big day in France particularly as so much of boith of the big wars were fought there.
Anyone know what they do in other European countries

[Durham Giant]

Re: rememberance : Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:53 am  

Fascinating interview witha WW2 veteran on Breakfast this morning Victor Gregg. ( 8.40 am) His views on the war wearing poppies and Dresden were fascinating and very poignant