Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:57 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

FFS i don't want politicians talking about someone calling someone a pleb or someone in wrong class on a train, i want then to knuckle down and do someone worth while and act like an adult while they do it.

Quite right.

The only reason that I voted for my current MP is because he proved in the previous parliament that he actually does work and campaign for his constituency, the colour of the flag of convenience that he sails under is not a concern of mine (its yellow), the only fact that I look at is the fact that he works hard, he tweets his day to day involvement in the constituency and when he is up here he puts himself around the constituency with at least eight different "surgeries" per month in different areas.

What his party flag stands for is not a concern of mine and he is not shy to speak out against his own party and certainly the other parties - he's one of the good guys.

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:13 pm  

Ajw71 wrote: The rich pay enough. Tax them any more and you will get what is happening in France, all the rich people leaving / wanting to leave. This is, in part, why a number of Californian cities have declared themselves bankrupt and are unable to pay the pensions of former employees. Half of all net income taxes were paid by the top 1%. When enough of them moved, the whole system collapsed. The idea that no overall contribution should be made by a large proportion of the population is not sustainable. You simply cannot run an economy on that basis. Still...no need for society to trouble itself with tough economic questions when we can discuss more interesting things. Like if someone called someone else a pleb, and what type of train ticket the chancellor had when he boarded a train. Anyone remember Cherie Blair and a very similar incident? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/597734.stm

Ajw71 wrote: The rich pay enough. Tax them any more and you will get what is happening in France, all the rich people leaving / wanting to leave. This is, in part, why a number of Californian cities have declared themselves bankrupt and are unable to pay the pensions of former employees. Half of all net income taxes were paid by the top 1%. When enough of them moved, the whole system collapsed. The idea that no overall contribution should be made by a large proportion of the population is not sustainable. You simply cannot run an economy on that basis. Still...no need for society to trouble itself with tough economic questions when we can discuss more interesting things. Like if someone called someone else a pleb, and what type of train ticket the chancellor had when he boarded a train. Anyone remember Cherie Blair and a very similar incident? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/597734.stm

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:32 pm  

Which government department was she in charge of?

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:42 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

This is, in part, why a number of Californian cities have declared themselves bankrupt and are unable to pay the pensions of former employees.

And nothing to do with a race to the bottom on property taxes, labour laws and corporation tax then?

[DaveO]

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:29 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

Quite right.

The only reason that I voted for my current MP is because he proved in the previous parliament that he actually does work and campaign for his constituency, the colour of the flag of convenience that he sails under is not a concern of mine (its yellow), the only fact that I look at is the fact that he works hard, he tweets his day to day involvement in the constituency and when he is up here he puts himself around the constituency with at least eight different "surgeries" per month in different areas.

What his party flag stands for is not a concern of mine and he is not shy to speak out against his own party and certainly the other parties - he's one of the good guys.

So if you had a BNP MP who sorted out some local issues to your satisfaction you wouldn't care he was allied to the BNP? No? Thought not.

He won't be one of the good guys for the simple fact he has aligned himself to a party flag and because of what that means at this point in time i.e. what his party is doing with his active support. He is not anything like as independent as you may think or are suggesting here because I can virtually guarantee he has never defied the whip even though I don't know who he is.

He has taken the Lib Dem whip so therefore in my book he is definitely one of the bad guys given what has party is facilitating in the coalition government.

Has he defied the party whip on the NHS and did he vote against the tuition fee increases? Does he have any kind of ministerial position (which would prevent him from opposing any government policy or he would have to resign that position however junior it may be)?

He is by definition as bad as all the rest of his Lib Dem colleagues as they wave through Tory policies precisely because he has aligned himself to that particular flag.

The fact he isn't an independent member of parliament free from a party whip means the flag he flies under matters a great deal despite what he may do locally. So long as parliament is organised on party lines this will be the case.

Given there is nothing to say an opposition MP would not work equally as hard locally if they were elected then if you vote for this guy again given his undoubted active support for this governments policies (assuming you oppose most of them) you are IMO off your rocker.

Anyone who voted Lib Dem last time especially if they had a hard working local MP can be excused given what they put in their manifesto but to vote for them again? Madness.

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:38 am  

Chris28 wrote:

Which government department was she in charge of?

But isn't she a QC, probably in the best position to know what is right and wrong, she's probably even more worldly wiser than Osborne.

Or she's just human?

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:48 am  

Horatio Yed wrote:

But isn't she a QC, probably in the best position to know what is right and wrong, she's probably even more worldly wiser than Osborne.

Or she's just human?

Absolutely, but in the context of this thread, it's irrelevant. She wasn't telling us that we're all in together when practicing the opposite and, from the linked report, appears to have been mortified by the whole thing (quite possibly because of the bad publicity and getting caught rather than the offence itself) whereas George is in charge of the nation's purse strings, and doesn't appear to have learnt from his first try at this.

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:50 am  

Horatio Yed wrote:

But isn't she a QC, probably in the best position to know what is right and wrong, she's probably even more worldly wiser than Osborne.

Or she's just human?

It's not the biggest issue around, but there are a couple of things that make it worth noting/illustrate something.

1) If it happened once, then the claim of it being an error would be plausible. But it seems that it has happened more than once.

2) It was the person at the centre of this who decreed that MPs should use standard class.

So there's the suggestion of a sense of entitlement – and an element of 'do as I say, not do as I do'.

The second point (and possibly the first) can also be said of the new expenses revelations about some MPs from both sides of the house.

It's all all the more grating because of the whole austerity agenda and the 'we're all in it together'.

[DaveO]

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:51 am  

Horatio Yed wrote:

My point is, regardless of the guys wealth, the place he was educated, his stature in Government we are all human, we all make mistakes ALL OF US, every single one of the billions of people that have lived or ever lived made a mistake.

You have completely missed the point. Mistakes are things like forgetting your ticket. As an MP he is supposed to sit in standard class. The fact he wouldn't whether he was willing to pay the upgrade or not, that is the issue. Why? Because it gives us a clue about his character and attitude. As did the comments Mitchell made when calling the police plebs.

It's very often the little things people do when they think no one is watching that tells us what people are really like and what they stand for.

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:09 am  

DaveO wrote:

You have completely missed the point. Mistakes are things like forgetting your ticket. As an MP he is supposed to sit in standard class. The fact he wouldn't whether he was willing to pay the upgrade or not, that is the issue. Why? Because it gives us a clue about his character and attitude. As did the comments Mitchell made when calling the police plebs.

It's very often the little things people do when they think no one is watching that tells us what people are really like and what they stand for.

I'm not actually bothered whether he travels first class or standard class, it's the attempt to travel first class without paying for it that is the issue. Especially when he and his party so regularly attack benefits and welfare recipients as irresponsible. That £160 he tried to avoid paying is more than 2 weeks dole money for those irresponsible dole scroungers that he and his party blame for the deficit and that dole money he is desperately trying to reduce. Also the comment "he couldn't possibly travel standard class" does him no favours.

I would also say that Jerry's MP is a good one who does appear to genuinely try and help his constituents with problems they have, and also has been pivotal in helping setup rugby league clubs. And has regularly voted against his party on things like the Health & Social Care Bill and Welfare Reform. I think as far as MP's can he tries to do what he thinks is right. I'd happily trade my Tory MP for Jerry's Liberal MP.