Re: More stupidity from a public sector body? : Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:11 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

And your philosophy is less 'batshit' I presume? After all, you'll have a philosophy. But your own prejudice and intolerance does not allow other people's to be seen as valid. Ironic really that you and those who take your kind of approach to the views of others are as intolerant and prejudiced as those you mock as being intolerant and prejudiced.

We're not just talking of personal prejudices here though are we - we are talking of policies and fundemental business practicies (for they operate as a business, they have to to be a charity) that are illegal in every other form of business - the special dispensation for religions to flout legalities simply by stating "But its what we believe in..." is wrong, always has been, always will be and you playing the persecution card won't change that.

Re: More stupidity from a public sector body? : Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:14 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

... In my philosophy, the Catholic Church should be able to choose who uses their service in the same way as GPs should be free to follow their conscience on the matter of abortion and teachers on the matter of religious education.

No one is stopping them.
However, they are not, in my philosophy, entitled to tax breaks to do it.
My reason is because they specifically exclude a minority group, not on the grounds of lack of need or on the grounds of unsuitability in terms of potential capability as successful parents but on the (in my view, pathetic) grounds of not being married within the Catholic definition of marriage.
Hence, the aims of that "charity" are mis-stated.

For Dally ...
You tried to make a point about a vigorous minority (gay couples) calling the shots and driving the debate.
Quite apart from that being incorrect, I would invite you remember that only approximately 8% of the UK population is Catholic and that fewer than a million of them regularly attend church.
By your rules they shouldn't be driving the debate either.

Re: More stupidity from a public sector body? : Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:21 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

For Dally ...
You tried to make a point about a vigorous minority (gay couples) calling the shots and driving the debate.
Quite apart from that being incorrect, I would invite you remember that only approximately 8% of the UK population is Catholic and that fewer than a million of them regularly attend church.
By your rules they shouldn't be driving the debate either.

Then there's those you claim to be CoE, Muslims, Jews, Methodists, Hindu's etc, etc

Re: More stupidity from a public sector body? : Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:12 pm  

It is worth remembering that there is no one line that unites all Christians in all Christian denominations on issues related to sexuality.

I suspect it's the same in other religions too.

Re: More stupidity from a public sector body? : Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:20 pm  

Dally wrote:

Then there's those you claim to be CoE, Muslims, Jews, Methodists, Hindu's etc, etc

If they are driving the debate about this issue, then they are doing it very quietly, I certainly haven't heard them wanting the law changed to suit their adoption charities.

Re: More stupidity from a public sector body? : Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:24 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

If they are driving the debate about this issue, then they are doing it very quietly, I certainly haven't heard them wanting the law changed to suit their adoption charities.

I'll think you'll find that the Charity Commissioners interpretation of existing law could by some be considered suspect.

Re: More stupidity from a public sector body? : Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:07 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

No one is stopping them.
However, they are not, in my philosophy, entitled to tax breaks to do it. My reason is because they specifically exclude a minority group, not on the grounds of lack of need or on the grounds of unsuitability in terms of potential capability as successful parents but on the (in my view, pathetic) grounds of not being married within the Catholic definition of marriage.
Hence, the aims of that "charity" are mis-stated.

Many if not most charities are exclusive. That is their nature. The Catholic church set up their adoption agency way before the secular government decided that being gay was now ok enough to adopt children. They have been providing couples of similar worldview with children for decades. The Catholic Church in a free society should be able to continue its work without harrassment and with its charitable status in tact because it operates as a charity in the same way other charities operate, serving a particular section of the community as all charities do.

Councils have mile long waiting lists of children waiting to be adopted and they have no problems matching children with gay couples. Stonewall aren't happy with that though. They are demanding that everyone conforms to their way of thinking. The irony. They are wanting for others what they don't want for themselves. Their hypocrisy is astounding.

Re: More stupidity from a public sector body? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:32 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Many if not most charities are exclusive. That is their nature. The Catholic church set up their adoption agency way before the secular government decided that being gay was now ok enough to adopt children. They have been providing couples of similar worldview with children for decades. The Catholic Church in a free society should be able to continue its work without harrassment and with its charitable status in tact because it operates as a charity in the same way other charities operate, serving a particular section of the community as all charities do.

Its illegal to discriminate against certain sections of society.

The fact that a person or organisation discriminated against that sector previous to the law being formed is irrelvant, I can't continue treating black people as second class citizens just because I was raised through a couple of decades when they were until the race relations act was introduced circa 1976.

I think that you understand all of this though and the Catholic Church should surely understand this for their adoption charity, they and you are intelligent people who have allowed your view to be clouded by a faith based dogma which is making you support illegal working practices that you would not get away with if, for instance, you ran a grocers shop - or even a guest house (LOL).

Re: More stupidity from a public sector body? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:29 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

the secular government decided that being gay was now ok enough to adopt children.

Re: More stupidity from a public sector body? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:02 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

... before the secular government decided that being gay was now ok enough to adopt children ...

Is there something wrong with being gay?