Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:29 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

Perhaps the placement was of use to her. She has since got a job at Morrisons.

Kids go straight from school with no retail experience to work in supermarkets.

This whole 'you need experience to work in menial jobs' line is wrong and only used to exploit the vulnerable.

[Kosh]

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:35 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

This one is not done and dusted. There is still the possibility of an appeal to the Supreme Court. Curious - should said girl lose in Supreme Court who will cover the Government's legal costs?

That regardless, this whole episode has probably done her career prospects no good. She will now be listed as a potential trouble causer who employers will probably choose to avoid.

Still, so long as Phil Shiner and his mates have made a few quid out of it job's a good 'un.

You really are a tit, aren't you.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:22 pm  

Kosh wrote:

You really are a tit, aren't you.

I have never understood how personal abuse advances any sort of argument, either on an internet forum or in real life. The irony is it actually makes the 'abuser' look like the tit.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Unfortunately, there are not a huge number of jobs around at present.

The only thing that my niece can get at present is part-time in an independent jewellery shop in Leeds – after becoming the first of our immediate family to get a degree.

In the case of this young woman, she has a geology degree and had organised work experience for herself, in a local museum. In other words, something that was relevant to her degree and her career hopes. That was stopped when she was told that she had to do WorkFare in Poundland. In other words, work experience had nothing to do with anything.

Her subsequent work for Morrisons illustrates two things: that she's employable and that she's not afraid to work.

Interesting that Mintball - I started a thread on here looking for a graduate to work full time within one of the departments I manage at work, I got two people - thats all!! One wasn't interested in the end, Barry got the job and used the experience we offered to get another job doing what he qualified at uni to do.

There is work out there sometimes I wonder if young people especially graduates are really prepared to get their hands dirty and take a chance and back themselves to make things happen.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:31 pm  

Big Graeme wrote:

Which is the major issue with taking the low paid out of tax all together, total disenfranchiseation of a whole section of society.

Sending them out to work for free isn't going to solve that.

Two points - not sure how not paying tax disenfranchises you? secondly they are not doing it for free, they are getting JSA - I think if they are required to work they should get the minimum wage but then I suppose there has to be an incentive to employers to participate.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:34 pm  

Damo-Leeds wrote:

If you put it that way then no you don't need a university education to do the tasks above. However customers visiting the museum will at least expect that the staff can engage in a intelligent conversation reguarding the content in the museum.

A couple of months ago I went to a local exhibition and one of the highlights was talking to the site manager who went through with me the history of sunny bank mills in Farsley. Yes whenever he went to university or not is irrelevant but these types of jobs can't just go to anybody unlike supermarket jobs. They is a difference.

You don't need to have a degree to give a few pointers to visitors or to be able express yourself in a coherent way. You are really stretching a point Damo. If you said she wants to a curator or restorer different matter but there is no indication anywhere that to be the case.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:07 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Interesting that Mintball - I started a thread on here looking for a graduate to work full time within one of the departments I manage at work, I got two people - thats all!! One wasn't interested in the end, Barry got the job and used the experience we offered to get another job doing what he qualified at uni to do.

There is work out there sometimes I wonder if young people especially graduates are really prepared to get their hands dirty and take a chance and back themselves to make things happen.

As has been mentioned (IIRC) there is also a terror that, if you're a graduate and take a 'lowly' job, it will actually look bad on your CV.

But I'm not going to claim that my niece's experience is the whole story. But it is a real example of what young people are facing. She certainly is frustrated that she cannot get anything more (and is looking – and has managed to get one interview in 18 months).

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:19 pm  

Interesting quotation at the end of this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... d-workfare "You expect to come out of uni and be employable." This is part of the problem. University graduates often feel they have some 'right' to a good job. They see low paid or menial work as beneath them. People need to realise that university is not a guaranteed ticket to well paid gainful emploment. Higher Education Statistics Agency have revealed 28% of 2006 graduates were not in full-time employment 3 years later. Of those who were, only 16% of men were earning over £20,000 with the figure being 29% for women. Bottom line is she is employable. There are not enough 'graduate' jobs to support 50% of our population going to university. The brightest and best graduates will, generally, find decent employment. I seem to recall reading that Cait had applied for around 200 jobs and been unsuccessful in each application. Read into this what you will. As with everyone else in society, she may have to spend a few years doing something she doesn't want to do before landing her dream job.

Interesting quotation at the end of this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... d-workfare "You expect to come out of uni and be employable." This is part of the problem. University graduates often feel they have some 'right' to a good job. They see low paid or menial work as beneath them. People need to realise that university is not a guaranteed ticket to well paid gainful emploment. Higher Education Statistics Agency have revealed 28% of 2006 graduates were not in full-time employment 3 years later. Of those who were, only 16% of men were earning over £20,000 with the figure being 29% for women. Bottom line is she is employable. There are not enough 'graduate' jobs to support 50% of our population going to university. The brightest and best graduates will, generally, find decent employment. I seem to recall reading that Cait had applied for around 200 jobs and been unsuccessful in each application. Read into this what you will. As with everyone else in society, she may have to spend a few years doing something she doesn't want to do before landing her dream job.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:10 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

"You expect to come out of uni and be employable."

This is part of the problem. University graduates often feel they have some 'right' to a good job.

There's quite a bit of ground between those two statements, yes they should expect to be employable, that is the major reason they are at Uni in the first place, I'm not sure the average student feels they have a right or entitlement to a good job, I think they understand that they start quite low down on a career path and have to put the effort in to move along that path, I think the right and entitlement attitude comes from students at the better universities.

The Video Ref wrote:

They see low paid or menial work as beneath them.

I work between two universities, not something I see to be honest, in fact I see plenty of students working in the service industries that are renown for low pay.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:17 pm  

Mintball wrote:

As has been mentioned (IIRC) there is also a terror that, if you're a graduate and take a 'lowly' job, it will actually look bad on your CV.

But I'm not going to claim that my niece's experience is the whole story. But it is a real example of what young people are facing. She certainly is frustrated that she cannot get anything more (and is looking – and has managed to get one interview in 18 months).

Is having a lowly job better than having no job?