Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 12:52 pm  

A couple of points

The vast majority of the British population are descended from immigrants, we are a mix of every nation we have ever come into contact with. From the Romans, Saxon, Jutes , Vikings, Angles, Normans, French, Dutch , Hugenots, Indians, Africans etc etc. Thats why we have so much in common with the USA, we are mongrel nations and we need the diversity it brings to enhance our future. When they say they want to stop immigration they actually mean they want to select who comes here based on whatever white right wing half wits they deem we need to bring in.

UKIP won seats against the two Tory parties in the major Tory parties heartland, that will be more of a worry to them then it will Labour. Any splitting of the right wing will help Labour in every area and I dare say we will see some reaction to this ahead of the next Gen Election.

I am also a federal European, yes I do believe a United States of Europe is a good thing long term and one we should all aim for. The armed forces of Europe are moving closer togther and share resources as the world changes, we move into the new world or we stagnate and become an impoverished island attached to a Federal Europe.

or we could revert back to the Kingdom of Northumberland

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 2:38 pm  

My wife family are mostly Polish, My great grandfolks were Norwegian. I've no issue with immigration
Open borders though is stupid, why should already stretched resources be stretched further by an influx of more Eastern Europeans?

I wouldn't care if their country was Great Britain part 2, they ate English breakfasts, spoke English and were exactly the same as me, we can't accomodate them, it's that simple to me.

Open borders without a vastly improved infrastructure is just stupid, our Welfare State/Healthcare/Education are already at breaking point.

I wouldn't mind a bit of selfish insular politics for a while until we sort out our own house.

Money for starving Africans, ignore starving people on the streets of UK, Aid money for Indian children yet we have 'child poverty' in the UK.
Billions in debt but give it away to all and sundry.
No issue with 'foreigners' i do have issue with more people regardless when they are not sustainable.

Another thing the European Union, what's the need for centralising everything, one currency, one economic policy etc etc.
Can't we just all draw up benefical trade agreements and just leave it at that?

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 3:17 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

... Open borders though is stupid ...

Is anyone proposing it?

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 3:41 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Is anyone proposing it?

I can live anywhere in the EU without any paperwork or a decent education, is that not open enough?

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 3:58 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

I can live anywhere in the EU without any paperwork or a decent education, is that not open enough?

So what restrictions should be placed on you and the rest of us? Because it does actually work both ways.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 4:08 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

I can live anywhere in the EU without any paperwork or a decent education, is that not open enough?

try it and see how far you get

in fact, try driving a Nissan Pathfinder through the tunnel and not getting stopped and searched both ends, and if you want to borrow one, PM me.

Europe is nowhere near as "open" as UKIP or others would suggest.

That is the problem, SOME of what UKIP want to do is quite right, as is SOME of Labour and SOME of the Conservatives.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 4:08 pm  

I know, i'd like an end to it, not anti immigration just letting anyone in just because they're born in an EU country is daft. If it was such a good idea wouldn't countries like USA and Australia have open borders?

I was quite happy with the way it was before the open EU borders, if i want to live in Germany i have no issue with having to qualify via a system of entry other than and more complex than BORN IN UK.

I wanted to move to NZ (still could) but fell just short of the points needed, i'm currently in the process of making sure i have the few letters after my name to help that.

If everyone is scrutinised as much as this then i have a little more faith in the governance and quality of people entering.
I'm in the Quality not Quantity camp.

I'll reiterate i'm NOT anti immigration.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 4:10 pm  

UKIP could be a monumental cockup, i'll not dispute that but both Labour and Tory have had their turn in my eyes, and i have faith in neither

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 4:18 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

... I'll reiterate i'm NOT anti immigration.

1) I am not saying that you are anti-immigration, so let's put that one to bed.

2) What do you feel about someone moving to a different part of the UK for look for work? Should that depend on education, infrastructure being able to cope, work availablilty etc? If not, why not?

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 4:23 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

I know, i'd like an end to it, not anti immigration just letting anyone in just because they're born in an EU country is daft. If it was such a good idea wouldn't countries like USA and Australia have open borders?

You are aware that although the USA is ostensibly a single nation, it is in reality a commonwealth of 50 individual States? There is a clue in the name.