Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:02 pm  

Keith wrote:

Cross purposes I thought you meant increase competition for supply and distribution, not just the retail bit.

That has long been one of my bones of contention.

The only 'choice' we have with utilities is who to pay to.

We cannot, for instance, choose to buy soft water when in London. And when you see how energy companies have, in recent years, all put up prices at approximately the same time, by the same amount, you also see how little meaningful choice there is.

Also, as I've mentioned before, I dislike this business whereby it's the consumer's responsibility to be an expert in everything they buy – not least because you can no longer rely on customer service to be honest.

I've yet to be convinced that there is anything wrong with the idea that essentials such as power should be available to all at a fair rate that acknowledges the importance to the whole country of that product/service, and where any profit is then ploughed back into that product/service. Remarkably, in the last couple of years, even posters on the Telegraph forums have started saying that privatisation of utilities 'hasn't worked'.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:23 pm  

As has been said, part of the reason prices are high is the folly (largely under Labour) of building wind turbines via huge subsidy in order to prop up German (and Danish) manufacturers. Another example of Germany using the EU to its domestic advantage and an easy government sop to the deluded elements of the green lobby who seem to seriously believe that wind power is the answer to our energy needs. The whole thing is a bizarre joke at the expense of taxpayers and the countryside / seascape. Urban trendies f**king the country up - just as they do in every field.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:53 pm  

Good piece on the energy companies etc here.

Good piece on the energy companies etc here.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:03 pm  

Dally wrote:

As has been said, part of the reason prices are high is the folly (largely under Labour) of building wind turbines via huge subsidy in order to prop up German (and Danish) manufacturers. Another example of Germany using the EU to its domestic advantage and an easy government sop to the deluded elements of the green lobby who seem to seriously believe that wind power is the answer to our energy needs. The whole thing is a bizarre joke at the expense of taxpayers and the countryside / seascape. Urban trendies f**king the country up - just as they do in every field.

So we don't need greener and alternative energy?

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:11 pm  

Sheldon wrote: So we don't need greener and alternative energy? I'd have thought that the more energy we can develop (more) cleanly the better. I'm no expert, but there's some interesting stuff here: "As of 2011, Denmark is generating more than a quarter of its electricity from wind and 83 countries around the world are using wind power on a commercial basis. In 2010 wind energy production was over 2.5% of total worldwide electricity usage, and growing rapidly at more than 25% per annum. In the USA in 2005 it was estimated that the monetary cost per unit of energy produced for new wind power installations would be similar to the cost for new coal and natural gas installations." Link

Sheldon wrote: So we don't need greener and alternative energy? I'd have thought that the more energy we can develop (more) cleanly the better. I'm no expert, but there's some interesting stuff here: "As of 2011, Denmark is generating more than a quarter of its electricity from wind and 83 countries around the world are using wind power on a commercial basis. In 2010 wind energy production was over 2.5% of total worldwide electricity usage, and growing rapidly at more than 25% per annum. In the USA in 2005 it was estimated that the monetary cost per unit of energy produced for new wind power installations would be similar to the cost for new coal and natural gas installations." Link

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:18 pm  

Mintball wrote: I'd have thought that the more energy we can develop (more) cleanly the better. I'm no expert, but there's some interesting stuff here: "As of 2011, Denmark is generating more than a quarter of its electricity from wind and 83 countries around the world are using wind power on a commercial basis. In 2010 wind energy production was over 2.5% of total worldwide electricity usage, and growing rapidly at more than 25% per annum. That's all well and good until you look at electricity prices in the retail sector. May 2013's average market prices for the domestic consumer... Denmark 0.29525 € per kWh UK 0.17078 € per kWh http://www.energy.eu/ So yes the Danes may be producing more cleaner energy but they are paying 73% more than us for it. Which kind of defeats the object of Ed's policy really. Actually, looking at that data our electricity prices are pretty average for Europe, being 12th highest out of 28. For gas we are the 2nd lowest price in the whole of Europe with only Romania being cheaper.

Mintball wrote: I'd have thought that the more energy we can develop (more) cleanly the better. I'm no expert, but there's some interesting stuff here: "As of 2011, Denmark is generating more than a quarter of its electricity from wind and 83 countries around the world are using wind power on a commercial basis. In 2010 wind energy production was over 2.5% of total worldwide electricity usage, and growing rapidly at more than 25% per annum. That's all well and good until you look at electricity prices in the retail sector. May 2013's average market prices for the domestic consumer... Denmark 0.29525 € per kWh UK 0.17078 € per kWh http://www.energy.eu/ So yes the Danes may be producing more cleaner energy but they are paying 73% more than us for it. Which kind of defeats the object of Ed's policy really. Actually, looking at that data our electricity prices are pretty average for Europe, being 12th highest out of 28. For gas we are the 2nd lowest price in the whole of Europe with only Romania being cheaper.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:29 pm  

I'm bemused as to why renewable, clean energy should cost more? Additionally: response from Which?.

I'm bemused as to why renewable, clean energy should cost more? Additionally: response from Which?.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:42 pm  

Mintball wrote:

I'm bemused as to why renewable, clean energy should cost more?

Some of it (not all) will be down to the fact that the infrastructure for delivering conventional energy is largely fully depreciated and has long since made a return on investment, where as the price of clean energy will incorporate a cost of the fairly recent substantial investments made to generate it.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:48 pm  

Derwent wrote:

Some of it (not all) will be down to the fact that the infrastructure for delivering conventional energy is largely fully depreciated and has long since made a return on investment, where as the price of clean energy will incorporate a cost of the fairly recent substantial investments made to generate it.

Fair enough. But surely that means that the cost should fall over the coming years?

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:48 pm  

He must be doing something right given the foaming at the mouth front page of the Daily mail today