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Re: MANDELA DEAD : Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:09 am  
Did Mandela like Israel?
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Re: MANDELA DEAD : Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:43 am  
Worzel wrote:
Did Mandela like Israel?


Yes, he worked on a kibbutz when he was on day release from Robben Island.
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Re: MANDELA DEAD : Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:23 am  
Richie wrote:
Looks like I'm moving here (I'm in joburg now for a four day orientation) next year for a couple of years, so - update to follow!


Don't envy you that one bit. I visited in 2010 on a rugby tour and Joburg is a scary place. You drive from one secure place to another e.g your gated secure housing to the equally secure shopping mall. Personal security is big business and forget any idea of wandering round the streets after dark. Or indeed just wandering round the streets period!

One night on returning to Joburg from a visit to a safari park we arrived after dark and the owners of the place we stayed in were very nervous about having the security gate open long enough for a coach load of us to unload.

How people don't go even slightly mad given the caged existence they live in that part of the country is beyond me.

Cape Town is different. You still have to be careful but it's more in line with common sense of how you would behave in a big city. Some of the smaller towns down that area are also much more relaxed.

Everyone pretty sad here in SA. No protests or demos or anything like that though.


I have a friend who lives in the Cape Town area and he says the same thing.
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Re: MANDELA DEAD : Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:12 pm  
WIZEB wrote:
Yes, he worked on a kibbutz when he was on day release from Robben Island.


Did he like it there ?
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Re: MANDELA DEAD : Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:03 pm  
Dead Man Walking wrote:
Did he like it there ?



Enjoyed it although the conditions were quite spartan.
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Re: MANDELA DEAD : Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:29 pm  
DaveO wrote:
Don't envy you that one bit. I visited in 2010 on a rugby tour and Joburg is a scary place. You drive from one secure place to another e.g your gated secure housing to the equally secure shopping mall. Personal security is big business and forget any idea of wandering round the streets after dark. Or indeed just wandering round the streets period!

One night on returning to Joburg from a visit to a safari park we arrived after dark and the owners of the place we stayed in were very nervous about having the security gate open long enough for a coach load of us to unload.

How people don't go even slightly mad given the caged existence they live in that part of the country is beyond me.

Cape Town is different. You still have to be careful but it's more in line with common sense of how you would behave in a big city. Some of the smaller towns down that area are also much more relaxed.

I have a friend who lives in the Cape Town area and he says the same thing.


It's been alright really. Yes, all middle class housing is in gated communities. However we have walked around Sandton and Norwood during the day, and eaten at pavement cafés in areas that are not secured away. I'm in the airport heading back now. Mandela still dominating the local news, lots of road closures for events tomorrow, but all very peaceful.
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Re: MANDELA DEAD : Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:14 am  
DaveO wrote:
... How people don't go even slightly mad given the caged existence they live in that part of the country is beyond me...


Only been in Jo'burg long enough to walk between airport terminals and get a connecting flight, but Pietermaritzburg is bonkers. Tom Sharpe's first two books, Riotous Assembly and Indecent Exposure were set there – it's absolutely recognisable and I swear I met at least one of the characters on one visit.

I've also been carted to every bloody shopping mall in that town – all of them bland and utterly boring.

TB's mother used to get very funny comments from other white people because she was perfectly happy to get one of the combis into town to go shopping and they had a mindset that assumed she'd get raped or butchered when alone with all those black people.

The British ex-pats can be mad, but Afrikaaners are in another class.

Some of TB's old schoolmates held a braai to which we were invited as guests of honour.

All the blokes stood around the fire with cans of beer. I was expected to sit with the women in a corner: none of them were drinking and they weren't even talking to each other, let alone me, the 'guest'.

We also visited the mother in law's bowling club – like stepping back in time to the beginning of WWII: I felt as though I was sitting on the set of Tenko before they're all carted off to prison camp. Flowery dresses and lipstick that should have been in a museum; not being allowed in the main bar and having to listen to this complete fruitbat explain how she carried a picture of her dead son in his coffin with her at all times after he'd been killed in a car crash.

And when we stayed at a resort in the mountains, the Afrikanner guests never talked to any of the non-Afrikanner visitors, at all. The cocktail lounge would be quiet as a mouse in the evening – fortunately, we discovered the sports bar by the second night, which was where some of the staff and all the European guests socialised.

Lessons I learned while there on how to shock/horrify Afrikaaners:

1) be female and wear football shirts;

2) be female and drink beer;

3) be female and insist on getting a round in when it's your turn, and then actually going to the bar.
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Re: MANDELA DEAD : Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:10 am  
Mintball wrote:
Only been in Jo'burg long enough to walk between airport terminals and get a connecting flight, but Pietermaritzburg is bonkers. Tom Sharpe's first two books, Riotous Assembly and Indecent Exposure were set there – it's absolutely recognisable and I swear I met at least one of the characters on one visit.

I've also been carted to every bloody shopping mall in that town – all of them bland and utterly boring.

TB's mother used to get very funny comments from other white people because she was perfectly happy to get one of the combis into town to go shopping and they had a mindset that assumed she'd get raped or butchered when alone with all those black people.

The British ex-pats can be mad, but Afrikaaners are in another class.

Some of TB's old schoolmates held a braai to which we were invited as guests of honour.

All the blokes stood around the fire with cans of beer. I was expected to sit with the women in a corner: none of them were drinking and they weren't even talking to each other, let alone me, the 'guest'.

We also visited the mother in law's bowling club – like stepping back in time to the beginning of WWII: I felt as though I was sitting on the set of Tenko before they're all carted off to prison camp. Flowery dresses and lipstick that should have been in a museum; not being allowed in the main bar and having to listen to this complete fruitbat explain how she carried a picture of her dead son in his coffin with her at all times after he'd been killed in a car crash.

And when we stayed at a resort in the mountains, the Afrikanner guests never talked to any of the non-Afrikanner visitors, at all. The cocktail lounge would be quiet as a mouse in the evening – fortunately, we discovered the sports bar by the second night, which was where some of the staff and all the European guests socialised.

Lessons I learned while there on how to shock/horrify Afrikaaners:

1) be female and wear football shirts;

2) be female and drink beer;

3) be female and insist on getting a round in when it's your turn, and then actually going to the bar.

Sounds very "White Mischief".
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The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:27 am  
Chris28 wrote:
Sounds very "White Mischief".


That bowling club was very much so – just not quite as upper class. But then, for a lot of the people who went out there from the UK, it was the chance to have a standard of living that they could not have dreamed of here, with swimming pools and servants/staff.

Plus there were quite a few old colonials around who moved south as the assorted liberation struggles had seen their ideal world die out.
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Re: MANDELA DEAD : Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:00 am  
Chris28 wrote:
Sounds very "White Mischief".


Greta Scacchi back in the day.
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Yes please.
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