Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:07 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

It is in force, but the point is (and most likely the psychopath was chosen for the job for the same reason) about British-born jihadists.

True. Wasn't aware that part was actually in force yet as a lot of the other provisions of the act start in October. As you say, British-born nutters aren't affected though.

Not following this; if we know who he is then he could be detained by ANY border agency which detected a flag against his name, what would cancelling his passport add? It might even make it worse, as surely if the flag said "suspected psychopath terrorist" then the relevant border agency might act in one way, whereas if all they thought they were dealing with is some guy with a cancelled passport, they might not be ready with appropriate security.

Cancelling the passport might prevent him or anyone actually getting on a plane in the first place, but governments don't necessarily share their suspect index lists, so if they tried to get a plane in Russia for example they might not know how dodgy he was. Cancelling the passport would flag up a problem to anyone though.

It's pretty moot anyway as there may well be some sort of accident befalling him while he is being arrested, if the airstrikes don't get him first.

If the chap was identified and landed at Gatwick I should imagine we'd be rather keen to keep hold of him rather than send him back anywhere. The status of his passport would be the least of his troubles. But again, there is confusion here. If a British national arrives at the border incoming, he could not be refused entry. You only need a passport to enter other countries. Having had your valid British passport cancelled whilst abroad simply is not a reason to deny a person entry. If he is British then he is our problem.

I'm sure they'd keep hold of him too, but he'd have to prove he was British to gain entry. With no passport, or a cancelled one, how would he do that? The current immigration climate would suggest that a person with dark skin and no proof of identity or nationality might well end up in a detention centre before being sent back whence he came. Must admit I've never tried to get through immigration without some proper acceptable proof that I'm British.

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:35 pm  

If HMG decided that all those ISIS guys out there were not welcome back in the UK, could we not simply refuse entry on terrorism grounds?

Personally, I'd ship any who tried off on the first available flight to Cuba for our american chums to play with.....

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:32 pm  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

If HMG decided that all those ISIS guys out there were not welcome back in the UK, could we not simply refuse entry on terrorism grounds?

Personally, I'd ship any who tried off on the first available flight to Cuba for our american chums to play with.....

which would make us as barbaric as them.

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:49 pm  

rumpelstiltskin wrote: If HMG decided that all those ISIS guys out there were not welcome back in the UK, could we not simply refuse entry on terrorism grounds? Personally, I'd ship any who tried off on the first available flight to Cuba for our american chums to play with..... As has been said, how can you deny statehood to a born & bred British citizen? Where would you ship a suspected terrorist back to? It's a fair bet that any jihadists won't be flying in from Iraq or Syria and would we really simply want to turn them back to carry on their "war on the West"? Unlike the way we buggered around with Hamza and Quatada, any such listed people should be put before a court ASAP. As an aside, what the would-be jihadist is reading before he goes to war

rumpelstiltskin wrote: If HMG decided that all those ISIS guys out there were not welcome back in the UK, could we not simply refuse entry on terrorism grounds? Personally, I'd ship any who tried off on the first available flight to Cuba for our american chums to play with..... As has been said, how can you deny statehood to a born & bred British citizen? Where would you ship a suspected terrorist back to? It's a fair bet that any jihadists won't be flying in from Iraq or Syria and would we really simply want to turn them back to carry on their "war on the West"? Unlike the way we buggered around with Hamza and Quatada, any such listed people should be put before a court ASAP. As an aside, what the would-be jihadist is reading before he goes to war

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:56 pm  

So to be British you just need to have born and raised here - Surely if u rail against the very fabric of British society, then that qualification becomes invalid??... .... It's up there with supposed Catholics, who visit church once every blue moon, live with partners outside of marriage, and indulge in sex using contraceptives - They are not Catholics in the same way these jihadists are not British.

There are rules you should have to follow to be a member of any community, whether it be British, Catholic, a Union, etc - One of the rules of being British should be that you don't nob off to fight some holy war, threatening to wage terror on the very things that you will have learnt during your British upbringing, such as respect for others and freedom of speech and thought for everybody.

The irony is, I am not normally one for patriotic British nonsense, in a UKIP, Nigel Farage manner, however, the idea that these scum can be labelled something that millions have fought for the right to be called, is an absolute travesty... Call them terrorists, freedom fighters, or whatever, just don't call them British.

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:28 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

So to be British you just need to have born and raised here - Surely if u rail against the very fabric of British society, then that qualification becomes invalid??... .... It's up there with supposed Catholics, who visit church once every blue moon, live with partners outside of marriage, and indulge in sex using contraceptives - They are not Catholics in the same way these jihadists are not British.

There are rules you should have to follow to be a member of any community, whether it be British, Catholic, a Union, etc - One of the rules of being British should be that you don't nob off to fight some holy war, threatening to wage terror on the very things that you will have learnt during your British upbringing, such as respect for others and freedom of speech and thought for everybody.

The irony is, I am not normally one for patriotic British nonsense, in a UKIP, Nigel Farage manner, however, the idea that these scum can be labelled something that millions have fought for the right to be called, is an absolute travesty... Call them terrorists, freedom fighters, or whatever, just don't call them British.

Nope. If you're born here you're British regardless of what you do. There should never ever be any rules or qualification on citizenship for people born here.

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:34 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

So to be British you just need to have born and raised here - Surely if u rail against the very fabric of British society, then that qualification becomes invalid??... .... It's up there with supposed Catholics, who visit church once every blue moon, live with partners outside of marriage, and indulge in sex using contraceptives - They are not Catholics in the same way these jihadists are not British.

There are rules you should have to follow to be a member of any community, whether it be British, Catholic, a Union, etc - One of the rules of being British should be that you don't nob off to fight some holy war, threatening to wage terror on the very things that you will have learnt during your British upbringing, such as respect for others and freedom of speech and thought for everybody.

The irony is, I am not normally one for patriotic British nonsense, in a UKIP, Nigel Farage manner, however, the idea that these scum can be labelled something that millions have fought for the right to be called, is an absolute travesty... Call them terrorists, freedom fighters, or whatever, just don't call them British.

That could work in a totalitarian state and if you'd be happy to live in that, you're welcome to it. I really shouldn't but I will invoke Pastor Martin Niemoller here: "first they came for....." You know the rest

Children are not born Catholic or of any other religion, they are introduced or indoctrinated into it.

Children are born, with very few exceptions, into a nationality or statehood. That position may be renounced in later years but the numbers who are born "stateless" are infinitessimily small.

I asked previously why we do not lump British Jews who choose to undertake Israeli National Service (although they have no legal obligation to do so), in the same group as the jihadists. Perhaps you could offer a rational explanation?

What will happen here is that the state will gain ever more control over our lives, in the name of "National Security". This is despite the fact that far more women are killed by their partners, or gays killed by homophobes, than ordinary UK citizens killed by terrorists. As catastrophic as the London bombings were, more people have been killed by other means, than terrorism. Yet we see no real drive to introduce new laws and restrictions on personal liberties to combat this. If we ploughed the same amount of money into developing new anti-biotics as we do anti-terrorism, we'd see far fewer people dying from illnesses than would ever die from terrorism.

Get some fooking perspective and stop viewing illegal war-porn websites

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:46 pm  

Him wrote:

Nope. If you're born here you're British regardless of what you do. There should never ever be any rules or qualification on citizenship for people born here.

I wonder, what is the legal status of children who have been born in the UK to parents who are detained as "refugees" or "illegal immigrants"?

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:49 pm  

How to stop IS?

Well for a start I'd stop sending arms to the Syrian terrorists fighting the Assad regime.

[Durham Giant]

Re: IS and the Western response : Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:16 pm  

LeighGionaire wrote:

How to stop IS?

Well for a start I'd stop sending arms to the Syrian terrorists fighting the Assad regime.

Alternatively you could stop removing strong men/ dictators etc from their positions where they actuallly oppose the jihadists ie Assad, Gadaffi, Saddam Hussein all of whom were the enemies of the jihadists.

As opposed to those lovely nice saudis and Quataris who all actively support the jihadists

Then again if you were nasty to those saudi sheiks who would keep the property boom in London going ( particularly as we are pissing off the Russian oligarchs )