Re: Scottish Referendum : Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:13 am  

It's a crying shame that Scottish socialists are despairing of the ineffectiveness of the current Labour Party.
As a country that appears to hold social justice, as a core value in it's integral strategy, who can blame them after the erosion they have seen and had to endure from Westminster?

Re: Scottish Referendum : Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:58 am  

Not fully up to speed with it all, but does it mean border patrols and new passports issued for those in Scotland and those Scots already living and working in the rest of the UK?.

On another issue my sister is friends with someone who works for a big oil company overseas, they said The SNP will have to tread very carefully towards them on all sorts of measures...whatever that meant?.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:43 am  

duke street 10 wrote:

Not fully up to speed with it all, but does it mean border patrols and new passports issued for those in Scotland and those Scots already living and working in the rest of the UK?.

Salmond has already stated categorically that he has no intention of setting up border controls as his vision is on a par with the sort of borders you see in Europe, a road sign and nothing else.

However Theresa May in playing the pantomime villain has stated that English border controls will be necessary if Scotland adopts a free border approach in the same way that you see when crossing from Holland into Germany, the theory goes that anyone could fly or sail into Scotland without any checks and then just drive across the border, not sure if thats what Salmond really means as so much of this crazy debate is based on the back of cig packet calculations, but if May is really intending to have a passport check on every border crossing between Scotland and England then good luck to her, I think she is under the impression that only the A1 and M6 go into Scotland.

Personally I hope she does because the very first time I get a call out to one of our Scottish clients I'll have a lot of fun getting back into England with an out of date passport, I'll even be a test case if they want.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:44 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Salmond has already stated categorically that he has no intention of setting up border controls as his vision is on a par with the sort of borders you see in Europe, a road sign and nothing else.

However Theresa May in playing the pantomime villain has stated that English border controls will be necessary if Scotland adopts a free border approach in the same way that you see when crossing from Holland into Germany, the theory goes that anyone could fly or sail into Scotland without any checks and then just drive across the border, not sure if thats what Salmond really means as so much of this crazy debate is based on the back of cig packet calculations, but if May is really intending to have a passport check on every border crossing between Scotland and England then good luck to her, I think she is under the impression that only the A1 and M6 go into Scotland.

Personally I hope she does because the very first time I get a call out to one of our Scottish clients I'll have a lot of fun getting back into England with an out of date passport, I'll even be a test case if they want.

Wouldn't it be more akin to the border between the UK and Rep of Ireland? There we have a common travel area but only once you're actually inside it - it's not really a case of 'sneaking in' and then roaming around wherever you like.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:29 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

It has only been "Labour-led" because Camoron won't go anywhere near it, for fear of being blown out of the water.

His government proposed it and presented the legislation to enable the referendum.

If Scotland do vote YES to independence, Camoron is toast. Forget the Bedroom Tax or flogging off the NHS wholesale, he will always be remembered as the Prime Minister who lost Scotland and split apart the Union

Indeed. But like it or not and independent Scotland would make Labour toast too!

Re: Scottish Referendum : Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:45 pm  

The Scottish people should stand proud & tall and take control of their own country. They were sold out by royalty centuries ago.

As long as there are no longer Scottish MP's sitting in Westminster following a Yes vote, there's nothing else for the English to really be concerned about.

Labour will be the big losers electorally. 40+ MP's off any total will be mitigated by the majority required to win decreasing, but the Tories lose nothing at all.

I think there will be a No vote myself. fear of the unknown & sweeteners late in the day will swing it..

The big win is the democratic process.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:48 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote:

Wouldn't it be more akin to the border between the UK and Rep of Ireland? There we have a common travel area but only once you're actually inside it - it's not really a case of 'sneaking in' and then roaming around wherever you like.

I think thats where May was getting her knickers in a a twist because of something that Salmond may have hinted at once, she seems to be under the impression that he doesn't want any controls at all for UK citizens in a true EU open border type scenario.

Given that we can't control our own home-grown terrorists I think she's panicked into thinking that Scotland will be an easy route for all of Europes terrorists too.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:48 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

As I said, the three major parties may have said they won't let them keep the pound but that IMO is massively influenced by the fact that none of them want Scotland to leave the union. But it should be that Bank of England's decision as they have authority over monetary policy.

Salmond seems to think that the party leaders are bluffing and I'm inclined to agree.

All issues sorted through negotiation and don't need to be massive unless the parties choose them to be.

For someone who says he hasn't listened to Salmond you seem to be taken in by his false promises.

The Bank of England (BOE) is the bank of last resort and came to the rescue of HBOS and RBS (both Scottish banks) when they went bust to the tune of more than the whole Scottish GDP. If Scotland becomes an independent country the BOE cannot be the bank of last resort to a foreign country. If Scotland keeps the pound without the backing of the BOE then they will have a huge risk of requiring a bail out within a short period of time. The question is who will bail them out?

Salmond has gambled his whole economic policy on oil revenues which he fails to accept are declining. He has also hugely under calculated the costs of independence. eg his own embassies around the world, his own DVLA, his own funding of a higher public deficit than the rest of the UK, his own defense, his own BBC, his own civil service, funding Scottish pensions out of current income, etc etc etc

Of course it is possible for Scotland to become an independent country but the short and medium term costs are huge and he will need an austerity programme far far tougher than the rest of the UK to have any chance of making the books balance. Even the long term future is a massive gamble economically.

Salmond has made promises that he cannot keep

Re: Scottish Referendum : Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:28 pm  

Re: Scottish Referendum : Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:41 pm  

Lord Elpers wrote:

For someone who says he hasn't listened to Salmond you seem to be taken in by his false promises.

The Bank of England (BOE) is the bank of last resort and came to the rescue of HBOS and RBS (both Scottish banks) when they went bust to the tune of more than the whole Scottish GDP. If Scotland becomes an independent country the BOE cannot be the bank of last resort to a foreign country. If Scotland keeps the pound without the backing of the BOE then they will have a huge risk of requiring a bail out within a short period of time. The question is who will bail them out?

Salmond has gambled his whole economic policy on oil revenues which he fails to accept are declining. He has also hugely under calculated the costs of independence. eg his own embassies around the world, his own DVLA, his own funding of a higher public deficit than the rest of the UK, his own defense, his own BBC, his own civil service, funding Scottish pensions out of current income, etc etc etc

Of course it is possible for Scotland to become an independent country but the short and medium term costs are huge and he will need an austerity programme far far tougher than the rest of the UK to have any chance of making the books balance. Even the long term future is a massive gamble economically.

Salmond has made promises that he cannot keep

I think you are rather over estimating what Salmond has actually said or promised. Scotland keeping the £ doesn't equate to a bail out in any way.

There would be nothing preventing the BBC operating as a commercial television station & collecting subscriptions in Scotland.

Embassies? Reciprocal agreements with any countries they want them in?

DVLA? That would be a huge money spinner for them. Civil Service requirements would be what, set against what they have now?

Croatia is a similar sized country population wise to Scotland. It has a shipbuilding industry the Scots have the capability for on the Clyde. It seems to be doing quite well following accession to the EU, which has pumped in some £18bn into the country.