Re: Event ticket industry needs investigating and regulating : Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:39 am  

Big Graeme wrote:

One easy way to cut that demand off at source, play more shows in bigger arenas, if bands want to play small shows to small crowds they they are going to be touted.

You're seriously suggesting artists should play more gigs at the biggest venues simply to combat touts? Don't be ridiculous. Some of these bands tour for months or even years as it is. They book venues according to projected demand - they don't want too many empty seats, nor do they want to undersell themselves. Neither would it particularly solve the problem. Touts buying up tickets increases demand for the reselling market - they would do exactly the same with any additional gigs, only losing out on occasion if demand dramatically drops off, which is a gig no artist would book in the first place.

Hogwash put about by the major ticket sites to make people thing the touts are in some way getting around the feeble systems they have in place, in reality it's bodies online with multiple PC's and credit cards for the big boys and people buying six tickets when they only needed two for the small fish.

Are you suggesting there are no 'resellers' out there with banks of computers running netbots hammering the official ticket sites whenever gigs go on sale? Of course there are. As you admit, their systems are 'feeble'. And of course there are individuals and groups doing the same thing. Either way it results in the same thing: touts and opportunists denying fans the opportunity to buy tickets unless they're willing to line their pockets at inflated prices.

piemandan wrote:

Fair enough, but I'm not convinced I have ever sold tickets to 'vulnerable' people.

Which isn't what I said. I said I view you similarly. Ripping people off by any means is a scum business. I presume you wouldn't pay well over the odds for most products or services, so I'm not sure why you think touting is acceptable.

Big Graeme wrote:

However I have taken advantage of a vulnerable tout by holding out till show time to get a cheap ticket.

I've bought many tickets at lower than face value - late 80's/early 90's Old Trafford was a doddle for a cheap ticket 5 minutes after kick-off. But touting in those days was lower-key, lower-volume. Let's say a parent today wants to take their daughter and friends to One Direction - you think they're going to drag them all out and hang around dealing with unsavoury rip-off merchants on the off-chance they can get tickets? Of course not. Neither will most others. If they can't get them via official means they'll buy online, at inflated prices.

Re: Event ticket industry needs investigating and regulating : Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:59 am  

Cronus wrote:

You're seriously suggesting artists should play more gigs at the biggest venues simply to combat touts?

I've offered a solution, increase supply and you reduce demand.

Cronus wrote:

They book venues according to projected demand - they don't want too many empty seats, nor do they want to undersell themselves. Neither would it particularly solve the problem. Touts buying up tickets increases demand for the reselling market - they would do exactly the same with any additional gigs, only losing out on occasion if demand dramatically drops off, which is a gig no artist would book in the first place.

Promoters do the booking and take the risk, many promoters are tied in to certain venues, promoters are interested in money and have little to bring to the table, in fact many are in cahoots with the major players.

Cronus wrote:

Are you suggesting there are no 'resellers' out there with banks of computers running netbots hammering the official ticket sites whenever gigs go on sale?

I'm not sure you know what a netbot is or does

Security is so poor that they don't need to bother, a few PC's and a few credit cards saves hiring an hour on a botnet, many promoters don't care who buys the tickets as long as they sell.

Cronus wrote:

Which isn't what I said. I said I view you similarly. Ripping people off by any means is a scum business.

There is no rip off, if people don't want to pay they don't have to, no one is forcing them.

Cronus wrote:

I presume you wouldn't pay well over the odds for most products or services, so I'm not sure why you think touting is acceptable.

Just taking part in the capitalist economy dear boy.

Cronus wrote:

I've bought many tickets at lower than face value - late 80's/early 90's Old Trafford was a doddle for a cheap ticket 5 minutes after kick-off. But touting in those days was lower-key, lower-volume.

Ah I see, when you were getting a deal touting was fine, OK I suppose if you are going to have standards best make them double.

I'll let you into a little secret, see all them resale sites, all with hundreds of tickets for the big events? A huge amount of those high price tickets don't exist, never did. They'll never get sold either...

Re: Event ticket industry needs investigating and regulating : Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:32 am  

Just to whizz back to page one and the very first post that started all of this, the OP states that they made the decision NOT to purchase tickets from a reseller site as they were going for almost 100% markup.

Thats your answer to the whole problem right there and its also the reason why its not a problem at all.

The answer to the perceived problem is don't go to the gig if you think that the original face value price is too high and/or the reseller price is a rip-off - why anyone would then go ahead and buy something that they've already decided is a rip-off I just don't know, possibly too weak to stand by their own principles?

The reason why its not a problem is that there is a solution (see above) OR its not a problem because the service is well frequented and suits the reseller, the promoter, the venue operator and the artist by filling the venue and creating a demand - or in other words good marketing, the same sort of marketing that goes into every other consumer product that is launched to a market where the consumer doesn't yet know that he/she needs the product and can't live without it (how the hell do Apple sell a product for twice the price of all other computer technology company's).

Re: Event ticket industry needs investigating and regulating : Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:51 pm  

Big Graeme wrote:

I've offered a solution, increase supply and you reduce demand.

It's no solution at all. It's a ridiculous idea on every level, as you well know.

Promoters do the booking and take the risk, many promoters are tied in to certain venues, promoters are interested in money and have little to bring to the table, in fact many are in cahoots with the major players.

Correct, well done. And?

Security is so poor that they don't need to bother, a few PC's and a few credit cards saves hiring an hour on a botnet, many promoters don't care who buys the tickets as long as they sell.

Correct, well done. That doesn't make it right.

There is no rip off, if people don't want to pay they don't have to, no one is forcing them.

If you can't see why buying huge numbers of tickets to deny them to fans at face value and thus create demand, to then only offer them at inflated prices is a rip-off, I despair.

Just taking part in the capitalist economy dear boy.

Aaah...the old mantra of "it's just capitalism". Because capitalism never, ever needs regulating, does it?

Ah I see, when you were getting a deal touting was fine, OK I suppose if you are going to have standards best make them double.

As I said, low-level touting as it was back then did little harm.

I'll let you into a little secret, see all them resale sites, all with hundreds of tickets for the big events? A huge amount of those high price tickets don't exist, never did. They'll never get sold either...

And many do sell.

Re: Event ticket industry needs investigating and regulating : Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:24 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Just to whizz back to page one and the very first post that started all of this, the OP states that they made the decision NOT to purchase tickets from a reseller site as they were going for almost 100% markup.

Thats your answer to the whole problem right there and its also the reason why its not a problem at all.

The answer to the perceived problem is don't go to the gig if you think that the original face value price is too high and/or the reseller price is a rip-off - why anyone would then go ahead and buy something that they've already decided is a rip-off I just don't know, possibly too weak to stand by their own principles?

The reason why its not a problem is that there is a solution (see above) OR its not a problem because the service is well frequented and suits the reseller, the promoter, the venue operator and the artist by filling the venue and creating a demand - or in other words good marketing, the same sort of marketing that goes into every other consumer product that is launched to a market where the consumer doesn't yet know that he/she needs the product and can't live without it (how the hell do Apple sell a product for twice the price of all other computer technology company's).

That entire post is a contradiction. You acknowledge the OP decided not to buy due to the mark-up, yet then claim there is no problem. The OP's situation IS the problem.

The OP was denied the opportunity to buy those tickets at a fair price anywhere near face value. He decided (sensibly imo) not to fork out a fortune and therefore misses out. Why should he? Fact is, if a tout hadn't snapped up those tickets (and probably thousands of others) they could have gone to a genuine punter, but instead there are suddenly no other means of getting hold of a ticket. It's not simply a 'reselling service', it's touts and 'reselling' firms using systems to buy in bulk with the sole intention feeding on and increasing demand to sell at a massive mark-up.

The fact some people may buy at those prices doesn't mean it's not a problem, it simply means people were unable to buy in the first instance and are spending a lot more than they would have. For some people their desire to see the event outweighs even the inflated cost - but I bet if you asked most, they certainly wouldn't be happy at lining the pockets of some rip-off merchant. If there were only 10 turkeys left on Xmas Eve and you were 9th in the queue, then some bloke pushed in, bought 5 and then turned round and offered them for a £100 mark-up, you wouldn't be best pleased. That's exactly how industrialised touting works. Buying a disproportionate number of tickets, denying them to genuine punters, and then selling at a tidy profit.

That is a problem, no matter how much you claim otherwise. The entire industry needs shaking up.

Re: Event ticket industry needs investigating and regulating : Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:03 pm  

A search of a few minutes will still deliver decent priced tickets. The OP is a ****tard and this whole thread is a fuss about nothing.

Re: Event ticket industry needs investigating and regulating : Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:13 pm  

Cronus wrote:

That entire post is a contradiction. You acknowledge the OP decided not to buy due to the mark-up, yet then claim there is no problem. The OP's situation IS the problem.

The OP was denied the opportunity to buy those tickets at a fair price anywhere near face value. He decided (sensibly imo) not to fork out a fortune and therefore misses out. Why should he? Fact is, if a tout hadn't snapped up those tickets (and probably thousands of others) they could have gone to a genuine punter, but instead there are suddenly no other means of getting hold of a ticket. It's not simply a 'reselling service', it's touts and 'reselling' firms using systems to buy in bulk with the sole intention feeding on and increasing demand to sell at a massive mark-up.

The fact some people may buy at those prices doesn't mean it's not a problem, it simply means people were unable to buy in the first instance and are spending a lot more than they would have. For some people their desire to see the event outweighs even the inflated cost - but I bet if you asked most, they certainly wouldn't be happy at lining the pockets of some rip-off merchant. If there were only 10 turkeys left on Xmas Eve and you were 9th in the queue, then some bloke pushed in, bought 5 and then turned round and offered them for a £100 mark-up, you wouldn't be best pleased. That's exactly how industrialised touting works. Buying a disproportionate number of tickets, denying them to genuine punters, and then selling at a tidy profit.

That is a problem, no matter how much you claim otherwise. The entire industry needs shaking up.

The entire industry don't seem to be that bothered.

In fact neither does anyone else, apart from you.

Re: Event ticket industry needs investigating and regulating : Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:23 pm  

Bit of rocket science here.

I will pay what I, not anyone else, perceive as value for money.

For example, I will pay nothing to watch a live Mo & Ron Balls game no matter what it is. To me it is valueless . Others will pay over the odds and crow about it for kudos.

That's the system. It isn't perfect but its what we have. There are ways to change the system.

Re: Event ticket industry needs investigating and regulating : Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:25 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

The entire industry don't seem to be that bothered.

In fact neither does anyone else, apart from you.

And the OP, and others if you read back. A cursory web search also tells me plenty of people are bothered about it and calling for change.

I find it strangely hypocritical that certain vocal left-leaning posters are seemingly content to see an industry operating in such a manner, entirely geared towards ripping off the person on the street on an industrial scale.

Each to their own.

Re: Event ticket industry needs investigating and regulating : Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:05 am  

Cronus wrote:

And the OP, and others if you read back. A cursory web search also tells me plenty of people are bothered about it and calling for change.

I find it strangely hypocritical that certain vocal left-leaning posters are seemingly content to see an industry operating in such a manner, entirely geared towards ripping off the person on the street on an industrial scale.

Each to their own.

Thats because of your own ridiculous classification of people into "left" or "right" depending on what you believe to be their political viewpoint. Truth of the matter is that sensible self-thinkers do not live their lives according to political dogma and the thought that "Would the Labour Party/Tory Party (delete which does not apply) approve of this transaction?" simply does not cross anyone's mind, apart from yours (apparently).