Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young? : Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:15 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Maybe, but I really don't see why HMRC don't just look at the profits in the accounts, and land them with a whopping great tax bill, on the basis if they want to enter into artificial schemes involving associated companies based in an attic in Luxembourg then that's fine, but does not affect their tax. They would have to pay that tax, and if they wanted to appeal through the courts and persuade a judge that it really was all genuine, and not at all an associated companies scam for no purpose other than to save tax, well, crack on, and good luck with that.

I agree.

It can't be beyond the wit of even HMRC to know that the price Starbucks UK pay Starbucks Geneva for coffee is vastly inflated. HMRC are great at assuming a level of profit with SMEs, there's not reason similar assumptions cannot be transferred to larger enterprises.

Similarly, if they look a little closer at Walkers Crisps, they may find even more opacity in accounting. From 1948, when Walkers first started frying, they have paid UK Corporation Tax on their profits, until the takeover by Pepsico in 1999. Walkers still buy their potatoes from British growers, they even source their flavourings from British sources too. Unfortunately this once profitable company no longer generates profit from its UK operations.

Now one could assume that the usually shrewd Pepsico got it's acquisition strategy spectacularly wrong with Walkers, alternatively one may think that even though the potatoes are still grown by the same farmers and trucked to the same factories, the fact that they are bought by Pepsico in Switzerland and then sold on to Walkers UK, may give some clue about transfer pricing. Alternatively, I suppose Pepsico may have seen the plight of potato farmers in the UK and decided they would pay way over market price for the best spuds.

Either way, the UK exchequer is being robbed blind

Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young? : Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:08 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Greece has overwhelmingly thrown its support behind Syriza and true to form the establishment has wasted absolutely no time predicting doom and destruction for the country, the Eurozone and potentially the EU as currently configured.

The austerity programme forced upon the Greek citizens has had little to no effect on the oligarchs and political & commercial elite. They still continue to avoid paying taxes and revel in the corruption that has hardly been dented. Instead it is the lower to middle classes but more especially the young who have had the greatest burden. When you perceive you have nothing left to lose, then a radical "solution" becomes more attractive.

The neo-cons and neo-liberals who advocate permanent austerity are the only ones who would ever gain. By refusing to continue to follow the austerity programme, at least Greece may force those holding the purse strings to look to alternatives to austerity. Hopefully Syriza can start to prise financial considerations from those who have been reluctant to contribute for so long. People who have enjoyed the patronage of various regimes from way back in the Metaxas days, may now find that they too must contribute in order to retain their financial advantages.

Next stops: Spain, Portugal and Italy. Unfortunately it looks like we in the UK will just continue to bumble along with our "mustn't grumble" attitude.

Είμαι ΣΥΡΙΖΑ

#IamSYRIZA

Predictable leftist view with no balance.

Greece has a culture of tax avoidance and corruption spread across the population. €28 Billion of tax evaded in 2009 was by the self-employed alone.

Economists estimate that 2million private sector workers are carrying the brunt of the tax load while 1 million public sector employees and 1.3m self employed escape almost financially unscathed.

Chief offenders of the self employed are the professionals - education, engineers, accountants, etc hardly oligarchs.

Then there is the corruption that the OECD estimates in 2009 the size of the Greek grey market was €65 Billion. This was equal to 25% of GDP or €20 Billion in unpaid taxes. The Greeks have the expression "fakelaki" or little envelopes which is the term for bribing the many corrupt public servants.

Greece should never have been allowed to join the Euro zone. The irony is that the country who will not allow any debt to be written off is Germany who I believe is the only European country to have had half their debts (from two world wars) written off in the last 60 years.

Back to the present and quite how an election could have been won with a policy of promising to default on your national debt is worrying. A policy to renegotiate is fine but where do they think the money will come from. If the EU does agree to write off some debt there will be a queue forming behind Italy, Portugal and Spain with their hands held out.

They would have been better not taking the bail out and ditching the failed euro.

Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young? : Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:48 pm  

Didn't fancy trying to revive this account on the Mitchell thread then?

Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young? : Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:18 pm  

Him wrote:

Didn't fancy trying to revive this account on the Mitchell thread then?

Not with two lots of legal fees to pay LOL

Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young? : Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:47 pm  

Lord Elpers wrote:

Predictable leftist view with no balance.

Greece has a culture of tax avoidance and corruption spread across the population. €28 Billion of tax evaded in 2009 was by the self-employed alone.

Economists estimate that 2million private sector workers are carrying the brunt of the tax load while 1 million public sector employees and 1.3m self employed escape almost financially unscathed.

Chief offenders of the self employed are the professionals - education, engineers, accountants, etc hardly oligarchs

As a right winger surely you must applaud the tax avoiders.

Isn't it right wing dogma that taxes must be avoided at all costs and yet here you are spouting forth that this is wrong!

Seems to me that as usual you talk the right wing line without having a clue how the system works.

By the way any nearer giving answers to my previous questions?

Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young? : Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:59 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Not with two lots of legal fees to pay LOL

Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young? : Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:13 am  

Leaguefan wrote:

As a right winger surely you must applaud the tax avoiders.

Isn't it right wing dogma that taxes must be avoided at all costs and yet here you are spouting forth that this is wrong!

Seems to me that as usual you talk the right wing line without having a clue how the system works.

By the way any nearer giving answers to my previous questions?

The right wing line is about wealth creation and rewarding those who create that wealth. The stakeholders are: shareholders who risk their capital, directors who manage the shareholders' investments, employees who benefit from the first two, suppliers likewise and their employees, the general population through taxation - no way of avoiding Employers NI and VAT. The right wing model creates wealth that benefits everyone, what is wrong at the moment is the spread of the wealth generated. If this isn't resolved then you will have anarchy - something Cameron doesn't understand. That's what happens when you have rich boys who have never had a proper job.

It could be much worse - you could have a socialist/marxist/communist system that stunts development still spreads wealth unevenly and dictates to its citizens how they live their life.

Capitalism has its faults but its a hell of a lot better than any alternative out there.

Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young? : Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:26 am  

Leaguefan wrote:

As a right winger surely you must applaud the tax avoiders.

Wrong. Because I am not a left winger or that I contest your cosy mutual leftie backslappers club opinions does not therefore make me a right winger. Right of centre for most things left of centre for other issues.

Leaguefan wrote:

Isn't it right wing dogma that taxes must be avoided at all costs and yet here you are spouting forth that this is wrong!

So this proves your judgement to be wrong and by your own rules I am therefore not a right winger

Leaguefan wrote:

Seems to me that as usual you talk the right wing line without having a clue how the system works.

I merely seek to prick the leftie hot air bubble.

Leaguefan wrote:

By the way any nearer giving answers to my previous questions?

Remind me which of your confusions you would like clearing up?

Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young? : Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:24 pm  

So what are we saying here ... Greeks are ... erm ... pathologically corrupt?

Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young? : Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:31 pm  

Podemos on the march in sunny Spain. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31072139

Podemos on the march in sunny Spain. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31072139