Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:55 pm  

IR80 wrote:

ah yes, the famously not at all left wing BBC, what a credible source.

Which source would be credible to you? Which source would you believe?

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:00 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote: Just to save me typing page after page, this is the interview with Marr fact checked, by the BBC (not by some bogus Tory twitter site): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50624056 When you've had time to skim through it, you can let us know at which point Boris actually told the truth, about anything Whether it's him or Cummings or whoever else that is "controlling" their output, it's just wrong. I am not defending Johnson all I am saying is Labour is as bad if not worse and you have to attribute the direction of travel to it leader - you somehow think he is an honest broker - he cannot be excluded from all the lies the Labour party is telling. As you say it is just wrong, but you seem to either defend or ignore these Labour lies. In the last week they have jumped on two policies - WASPI and today train costs - neither of which were in their manifesto neither of which have been costed - where does it stop? If Labour continue we wont be taxes they will be rewarding us for working - its bonkers even Stevie Wonder can see that - why can't you?

wrencat1873 wrote: Just to save me typing page after page, this is the interview with Marr fact checked, by the BBC (not by some bogus Tory twitter site): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50624056 When you've had time to skim through it, you can let us know at which point Boris actually told the truth, about anything Whether it's him or Cummings or whoever else that is "controlling" their output, it's just wrong. I am not defending Johnson all I am saying is Labour is as bad if not worse and you have to attribute the direction of travel to it leader - you somehow think he is an honest broker - he cannot be excluded from all the lies the Labour party is telling. As you say it is just wrong, but you seem to either defend or ignore these Labour lies. In the last week they have jumped on two policies - WASPI and today train costs - neither of which were in their manifesto neither of which have been costed - where does it stop? If Labour continue we wont be taxes they will be rewarding us for working - its bonkers even Stevie Wonder can see that - why can't you?

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:53 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I am not defending Johnson all I am saying is Labour is as bad if not worse and you have to attribute the direction of travel to it leader - you somehow think he is an honest broker - he cannot be excluded from all the lies the Labour party is telling. As you say it is just wrong, but you seem to either defend or ignore these Labour lies.

In the last week they have jumped on two policies - WASPI and today train costs - neither of which were in their manifesto neither of which have been costed - where does it stop? If Labour continue we wont be taxes they will be rewarding us for working - its bonkers even Stevie Wonder can see that - why can't you?

Labour wont win but, if/when the Tories win, we will be heading for a no deal Brexit at the end of 2020 which, may be ok if you are Farage or, on the right of the Tory Party but, this would be the worst of all outcomes.
Of course, the EU will be blamed, the Tories and Boris in particular are exceptional at blaming others for their own problems but, this wont change where we are heading.
The only way that this wont be the case is, if the EU cave in during the negotiations and that just wont happen.

Oh yes and the UK will be in recession at that point, bringing further austerity, rising crime etc, etc - you know, like we've seen over the past 10 years.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:06 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Of course, the EU will be blamed, the Tories and Boris in particular are exceptional at blaming others for their own problems but, this wont change where we are heading.

This is one of the great ironies. The Conservative party demand everyone in the country take personal responsibility for each individual's actions and the consequences arising from them.

But as soon as it comes to the party owning their record, the disaster of Brexit and the tragic state of our public services they point fingers all over the place. It's never their fault.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:50 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

This is one of the great ironies. The Conservative party demand everyone in the country take personal responsibility for each individual's actions and the consequences arising from them.

But as soon as it comes to the party owning their record, the disaster of Brexit and the tragic state of our public services they point fingers all over the place. It's never their fault.

I think you are correct - nobody to blame but May and her team - she really screwed things up - she was out negotiated, easily done when you don't have any conviction in what you are trying to achieve.

You can't blame Boris for what he inherited in respect of Brexit - it was a complete car crash. Add to that a parliament that had 70% remainers including a host of Tories and you have an almost impossible task of achieving anything but a very soft Brexit.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:04 pm  

Johnson was part of the car crash. They had the numbers to get the deal through but failed because of Johnson and the ERG.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:13 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Labour wont win but, if/when the Tories win, we will be heading for a no deal Brexit at the end of 2020 which, may be ok if you are Farage or, on the right of the Tory Party but, this would be the worst of all outcomes.
Of course, the EU will be blamed, the Tories and Boris in particular are exceptional at blaming others for their own problems but, this wont change where we are heading.
The only way that this wont be the case is, if the EU cave in during the negotiations and that just wont happen.

Oh yes and the UK will be in recession at that point, bringing further austerity, rising crime etc, etc - you know, like we've seen over the past 10 years.

I don't share your negativity - maybe because I think we are a pretty innovative nation and business will always find a way. Nobody including the EU want a no deal Brexit and a solution will be found provided the Tories have sufficient majority to control parliament.

If Labour get in there will be some huge problems - as a nation we are heavily reliant on individual debt - even a small rise in interest rates combined with higher personal taxation will see a huge issue in the housing market - people simply will not be able to pay their mortgages. It isn't possible to fund all the give-aways that Labour propose by just taxing the rich and companies. It will impact ordinary people earning especially low earners.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:20 pm  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

Johnson was part of the car crash. They had the numbers to get the deal through but failed because of Johnson and the ERG.

The only time it came close - the third time Johnson voted for it - just remind me how many Labour MPs voted against it, they had vowed to support the result of the referendum?

Given the circumstances of the deal negotiations I doubt anyone could have done anything better - it had disaster written all over it. Boris' deal is just the best of a really bad job.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:31 pm  

Johnson deal is the same with one exception, May would not condone a border in Ireland unfortunately Johnson is quite happy to do so and even lie about its impact.
I note Johnson in lieu of the interview with Andrew Neil he is to be interviewed by Philip Schofield.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:11 pm  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

Johnson deal is the same with one exception, May would not condone a border in Ireland unfortunately Johnson is quite happy to do so and even lie about its impact.
I note Johnson in lieu of the interview with Andrew Neil he is to be interviewed by Philip Schofield.

Might as well be Gordon the Gopher, then they can speak nonsense to each other
Gordon "squeaks"
Johnson "yes, I know but, lets just look at the last 120 days"
Gordon "squeak"
Johnson babbles on and on and on with his pre rehearsed sound bites.