Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:16 am  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

I think this is what Johnson is proposing and this is why Javid had to go so I guess you are one of them.

What cannot happen is you brief against the boss - in an environment - because you get to a its either you or him/her and 99% of the time its you who goes.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:09 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

They have only been in power since December we only stopped paying in to the EU two week ago

We're still paying in for the duration of the transition period. 2020 is just pretend Brexit year. Don't expect the floods of investment for at least another 11 months.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:39 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What cannot happen is you brief against the boss - in an environment - because you get to a its either you or him/her and 99% of the time its you who goes.

When Theresa May was boss people briefed against her all the time.

Gordon Brown's cronies briefed against Blair all the time as well in the later Blair years.

Boris is in a powerful position now as he's just won an election and there is no obvious alternate leader, but after some time passes and the economy turns his power will wane and there will be more hostile briefing. Especially if/when he falls out with Cummings.

As William Hague said, "the Conservative party is famously loyal to its leader...until it isn't"

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:34 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

As William Hague said, "the Conservative party is famously loyal to its leader...until it isn't"

Or as Stephen Fry once observed, "as leader of the Conservative party, your enemies are not sat on the benches opposite. They're sat behind you."

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:43 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

When Theresa May was boss people briefed against her all the time.

Gordon Brown's cronies briefed against Blair all the time as well in the later Blair years.

Boris is in a powerful position now as he's just won an election and there is no obvious alternate leader, but after some time passes and the economy turns his power will wane and there will be more hostile briefing. Especially if/when he falls out with Cummings.

As William Hague said, "the Conservative party is famously loyal to its leader...until it isn't"

That is why May turned a 30 point lead into near defeat, she couldn't get anything done on Brexit etc. Labour was fine for the first term and half and after that they were on the slide as the infighting grew. Corbyn could control his troops and look what happened? Thatcher the same as Blair.

The difference is Cummings has shown an adept ability to make things happen - Brexit and a 70 seat majority perhaps he is the perfect foil for Boris who let's face it is a front man.

Never mind Labour are coming and we will all have trans-rights/new abortion rules/be kind to the trees shoved down our throat along with a host of other stuff and they wonder why nobody voted for them - complete bunch of clowns with no grasp on reality.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:45 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

In your own words... You don't know yet do you - we may well sell off the NHS - still 4.75 years to go.

I don't yet whether I will play for the Leeds Rhinos - I would suggests the odds of that and the selling off of the NHS are about the same

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:53 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I don't yet whether I will play for the Leeds Rhinos - I would suggests the odds of that and the selling off of the NHS are about the same

Another gullible Northerner believing that the NHS is safe in Tory hands!
Good luck on the Rhinos debut- considering the NHS has been sold off by stealth with more and more contracts for services going to the private sector, I reckon best get your boots cleaned- that debut will come sooner than you think.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:57 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The difference is Cummings has shown an adept ability to make things happen - Brexit and a 70 seat majority perhaps he is the perfect foil for Boris who let's face it is a front man.

Cummings has shown an ability to plot successful campaigns, which is a different thing from successfully governing.

In terms of his ideas, I wouldn't write him off. I think he has some interesting thoughts and whilst he seems to be a man of the right in terms of 'culture war', he has grasped some things about the importance of science and education and the need to spread wealth around the country that make him a more progressive force than the Cameron/Osborne acolytes. I don't think he is in politics to suck up to the already super rich.

The interesting point will be when Cummings starts to clash with the Conservative hierachy. He isn't even a member of the Conservative party, he's just someone they use because they think he is effective and like that he is non-pc and willing to take on aspects of the establishment they don't like, the BBC, courts etc. But it seems that this whole Treasury coup was forced because Cummings wants to go far further in terms of turning on the spending taps than the Javid or the Treasury upper brass were comfortable with. If he starts throwing cash around, Conservatives will find it distasteful but they'll suck it up and go along with it, as long as they think it helps them be popular.

If a recession comes along, and the government lose popularity, then Boris will be under pressure to change direction and offer up some heads on spikes, and Cummings ability to make enemies out of everyone will mean he'll be vulnerable at that point.

Nick Timothy, Theresa May's SpAD, was another overbearing character trying to run everything from No.10, although he kept a lower profile than Cummings does. But he had the same traits of bullying/falling out with many people in the Conservative hierachy. He was sacked the day after the 2017 election, when Theresa May needed a sacrificial head on a spike and his many enemies turned on him.

I think similar may happen with Seamus Milne in Labour, particularly if they have the pretext of the EHRC report pointing to him as being a problem with interfering with antisemitism expulsions.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:56 pm  

As always Sally, you cut through all of the nonsense on here and provide a well thought out argument. I can only assume for someone displaying such wisdom, you must be a Warrington supporter.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:27 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Never mind Labour are coming and we will all have trans-rights/new abortion rules/be kind to the trees shoved down our throat along with a host of other stuff and they wonder why nobody voted for them - complete bunch of clowns with no grasp on reality.

Too right, Sal! Those bloody trees, converting carbon dioxide into oxygen and sustaining ecosystems. Who chuffing needs them?! Better to tarmac over everything. A Starbucks drive-thru for every town!