Re: General Election 8th June : Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:01 pm  

Dally wrote:

The reason why these industries were privatised is nothing to do with efficiency, cost or service. It was purely to make national strikes in the industries less likely. That's also why they are messing about with schools and the NHS. All these industries would be more efficient, cheaper to taxpayers / consumers and provide better service if renationalised.

Delusional in word.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:29 pm  

Dally wrote:

The reason why these industries were privatised is nothing to do with efficiency, cost or service. It was purely to make national strikes in the industries less likely. That's also why they are messing about with schools and the NHS. All these industries would be more efficient, cheaper to taxpayers / consumers and provide better service if renationalised.

You are hoping that they would be more efficient, it's doubtful that they would be more efficient. Unfortunately I am old enough to remember the company which is now British telecom.
To have a land line telephone you had to wait at least three months and more in some cases. The main reason was lack of competition.
The government poured millions into state owned industries, most of it wasted. Don't think for one moment I am ignoring the private sector as they can be just as incompetent. Step forward British airways and take a bow. But the big difference is by the nature of competition ,companies have to perform or they go bust .
If you look at the fierce competition between the low cost airlines, Ryan air , jet 2 , etc etc if you time your booking correctly you can fly across Europe cheaply.
I am in the process of contacting sky as I think I am paying too much. Last time rang them up I pointed out to them how much I was paying for Netflix and amazon compared with sky. I received a substantial reduction in costs for a year. If I don't get the same response with sky I will close the account.
Yet with the bbc which is deteriorating year on year, I have to pay my license fee whether I like it or not.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:04 pm  

£200 billion was quoted today to nationalise Railways, water etc etc

Where the hell is that coming from!

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:51 pm  

wire-quin wrote:

£200 billion was quoted today to nationalise Railways, water etc etc

Where the hell is that coming from!

Jeremy's magic money tree, all socialists have one. It's my dream that one day I may become the owner of one these wonderful items. Unfortunately I believe only socialists have access to the money tree.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:03 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

Jeremy's magic money tree

See how easy it is for Lynton Crosby to hypnotise some people; he coined this phrase 72 hours ago, politicians are ordered to repeat it as many times as possible in the media - and hey presto, it becomes an actual thing.

It's depressing.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:08 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote: So Corbyn is going to cap rail fares to start is that going to make the state owned railways more or less profitable? Trenitalia makes about 3% net profit 190m on £5bn worldwide hardly hundreds of millions, same goes for Abellio, Go ahead made 57m of which 35% goes to the French etc These are marginal businesses not cash cows that will swell the government coffers - it wouldn't take a lot for these to be loss making. See your arguments sound all very good and everything, but doesnt stack up to cursory research. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nationalised-east-coast-rail-line-returns-209m-to-taxpayers-8866157.html https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/12/rail-privatisation-dutch-and-german-companies-took-uk-for-ride As per usual the tories have sold off our assets for the benefit of themselves and their wealthy shareholder pals. While we are left with high prices, poor services and no control. There is absolutely no reason that, managed properly, nationalised rail couldnt be a decent earner and we can then use that to operate franchises abroad. DB makes a fortune for the German Economy.

Sal Paradise wrote: So Corbyn is going to cap rail fares to start is that going to make the state owned railways more or less profitable? Trenitalia makes about 3% net profit 190m on £5bn worldwide hardly hundreds of millions, same goes for Abellio, Go ahead made 57m of which 35% goes to the French etc These are marginal businesses not cash cows that will swell the government coffers - it wouldn't take a lot for these to be loss making. See your arguments sound all very good and everything, but doesnt stack up to cursory research. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nationalised-east-coast-rail-line-returns-209m-to-taxpayers-8866157.html https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/12/rail-privatisation-dutch-and-german-companies-took-uk-for-ride As per usual the tories have sold off our assets for the benefit of themselves and their wealthy shareholder pals. While we are left with high prices, poor services and no control. There is absolutely no reason that, managed properly, nationalised rail couldnt be a decent earner and we can then use that to operate franchises abroad. DB makes a fortune for the German Economy.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:18 pm  

bren2k wrote:

See how easy it is for Lynton Crosby to hypnotise some people; he coined this phrase 72 hours ago, politicians are ordered to repeat it as many times as possible in the media - and hey presto, it becomes an actual thing.

It's depressing.

Actually it's from several years ago , so he must have borrowed or stolen it from somebody . However it's still relevant and true.
Just remember all socialist governments eventually run out of other people's money to spend.
Its highly likely due to the inept Tory campaign we will get to see a labour government again. Can't wait to see those intellectual giants Diane Abbott and Emily Thornberry in action

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:07 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

You are hoping that they would be more efficient, it's doubtful that they would be more efficient. Unfortunately I am old enough to remember the company which is now British telecom.
To have a land line telephone you had to wait at least three months and more in some cases. The main reason was lack of competition.
The government poured millions into state owned industries, most of it wasted. Don't think for one moment I am ignoring the private sector as they can be just as incompetent. Step forward British airways and take a bow. But the big difference is by the nature of competition ,companies have to perform or they go bust .
If you look at the fierce competition between the low cost airlines, Ryan air , jet 2 , etc etc if you time your booking correctly you can fly across Europe cheaply.
I am in the process of contacting sky as I think I am paying too much. Last time rang them up I pointed out to them how much I was paying for Netflix and amazon compared with sky. I received a substantial reduction in costs for a year. If I don't get the same response with sky I will close the account.
Yet with the bbc which is deteriorating year on year, I have to pay my license fee whether I like it or not.

As someone who has worked in telecoms for over 20 years. It can still take many months to install lines.

There is also now a vast web of bureaucracy involved in installing or repairing kit due to the various interconnects between all the different telecoms companies. Each have their own demarcation points with their own engineers.

At the time of privatisation the UK had the worlds most advanced telecoms infrastructure, we were installing the worlds first digital telephone exchanges and were world leaders in technology, thanks to British tech companies like GEC, Ferranti, Plessey etc. The kit was built to last or what is now marketed as Military grade standard. We had the fore runner to the internet called PRESTEL. Only France had anything better MINITEL.

Move forward to today and the UK has a middle of the road telecoms infrastructure wholly reliant on foreign sourced kit, which is built to commercial standards rather than military grade. BT despite making vast profits beg the government for hand outs to upgrade their network so that it is fit for the 21st century. Whole areas of the UK have substandard internet connectivity and telecoms infrastructure, for example its only in the last few months that BT has upgraded to IPV6, other companies like Virgin still dont support it.

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:46 am  

TrinityIHC wrote: See your arguments sound all very good and everything, but doesnt stack up to cursory research. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nationalised-east-coast-rail-line-returns-209m-to-taxpayers-8866157.html https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/12/rail-privatisation-dutch-and-german-companies-took-uk-for-ride As per usual the tories have sold off our assets for the benefit of themselves and their wealthy shareholder pals. While we are left with high prices, poor services and no control. There is absolutely no reason that, managed properly, nationalised rail couldnt be a decent earner and we can then use that to operate franchises abroad. DB makes a fortune for the German Economy. Neither of those articles support your argument that hundreds of millions of pounds are being made by foreign train operators - both the overseas franchises mentioned in the article made <£100m combined

TrinityIHC wrote: See your arguments sound all very good and everything, but doesnt stack up to cursory research. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nationalised-east-coast-rail-line-returns-209m-to-taxpayers-8866157.html https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/12/rail-privatisation-dutch-and-german-companies-took-uk-for-ride As per usual the tories have sold off our assets for the benefit of themselves and their wealthy shareholder pals. While we are left with high prices, poor services and no control. There is absolutely no reason that, managed properly, nationalised rail couldnt be a decent earner and we can then use that to operate franchises abroad. DB makes a fortune for the German Economy. Neither of those articles support your argument that hundreds of millions of pounds are being made by foreign train operators - both the overseas franchises mentioned in the article made <£100m combined

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:56 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Neither of those articles support your argument that hundreds of millions of pounds are being made by foreign train operators - both the overseas franchises mentioned in the article made <£100m combined

You may be right.
However, what isn't in doubt is that, the monies made by the foreign owned investors is moving out of the UK and IF these utilities were owned by the state and IF they continued to be as profitable, those monies would be reinvested, either in rail or, elsewhere.

THe Thatcher model of sell everything off to the highest bidder was great at generating short term cash and it may even have made some of the organisations more efficient but, WE have nothing left and more importantly, less control of the country's primary utilities.

Once again, the short term nature of UK politics has caused long term damage, which is a major problem when politicians rarely look further than the next general election.

"Strong and stable" ? nah, just short term popularity.