Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:10 pm  

DaveO wrote:

So if you had a BNP MP who sorted out some local issues to your satisfaction you wouldn't care he was allied to the BNP? No? Thought not.

Its highly unlikely that a BNP politician would sort out local issues to my satisfaction and so in that respect the answer to your hypothetical question is no and the principle of my selection of candidate stands.

He won't be one of the good guys for the simple fact he has aligned himself to a party flag ...etc



Given there is nothing to say an opposition MP would not work equally as hard locally if they were elected then if you vote for this guy again given his undoubted active support for this governments policies (assuming you oppose most of them) you are IMO off your rocker.

Anyone who voted Lib Dem last time especially if they had a hard working local MP can be excused given what they put in their manifesto but to vote for them again? Madness.

You've just underlined what I said previously, in the last parliament he was in opposition and he worked just as hard in this constituency on local issues, in this parliament he is part of the ruling majority and he is still in the constituency most every weekend working for local community groups, doing his surgeries, updating anyone who wants to be on his emailing lists with what he has done this week, updating live on Twitter with what local function he is currently attending, etc, etc

Bottom line is that I know exactly what he is doing on my behalf as my representative in parliament every day of the week, today he is working with the Big Energy Saving Week group (whoever the hell they are) and he is, as I type, trying to get a question in with the Health Minister in a commons debate, I suspect its regarding the Leeds Childrens Heart Unit campaign that he is vociferously supporting, last night he was hosting a charity called Whizzkids at The Commons...

Do you know as much about your local MP as I do, I can tell you what he is doing right now...

Yes he'll get my vote again next time and I genuinly don't care about the colour flag he sails under, only about what he will do for us as a constituency.

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:44 pm  

Him wrote:

I'm not actually bothered whether he travels first class or standard class, it's the attempt to travel first class without paying for it that is the issue. Especially when he and his party so regularly attack benefits and welfare recipients as irresponsible. That £160 he tried to avoid paying is more than 2 weeks dole money for those irresponsible dole scroungers that he and his party blame for the deficit and that dole money he is desperately trying to reduce. Also the comment "he couldn't possibly travel standard class" does him no favours...

^

Wot he said.

[DaveO]

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:55 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Its highly unlikely that a BNP politician would sort out local issues to my satisfaction and so in that respect the answer to your hypothetical question is no and the principle of my selection of candidate stands.

You've just underlined what I said previously, in the last parliament he was in opposition and he worked just as hard in this constituency on local issues, in this parliament he is part of the ruling majority and he is still in the constituency most every weekend working for local community groups, doing his surgeries, updating anyone who wants to be on his emailing lists with what he has done this week, updating live on Twitter with what local function he is currently attending, etc, etc

Bottom line is that I know exactly what he is doing on my behalf as my representative in parliament every day of the week, today he is working with the Big Energy Saving Week group (whoever the hell they are) and he is, as I type, trying to get a question in with the Health Minister in a commons debate, I suspect its regarding the Leeds Childrens Heart Unit campaign that he is vociferously supporting, last night he was hosting a charity called Whizzkids at The Commons...

Do you know as much about your local MP as I do, I can tell you what he is doing right now...

Yes he'll get my vote again next time and I genuinly don't care about the colour flag he sails under, only about what he will do for us as a constituency.

It is duly noted you have completely ignored everything I said about what his party affiliation actually means. It means support for the destruction of the NHS for one thing.

As you know so much about him how often has he voted against the government on issues such as the NHS? Policies I assume you oppose yourself?

And by the way MP's from all parties support the Leeds Children's Heart Unit campaign. It will be interesting to see, due to your MP's support for the NHS reforms, just how care for children with chronic conditions is affected by that regardless of the outcome of this campaign.

You seem a tad confused as to what you are voting for in a general election. This MP sounds as if he'd make a fine local councillor but you are completely ignoring that if you vote for him again at a general election what you will actually be voting for. It won't be to save the Leeds children's heart unit. It will be for the polices his party supports at national level regardless of what he does in his constituency whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

The idea we can vote for our local MP because he or she is a good egg and nothing else matters is a truly head in the sand approach.

You simply can not divorce what he does locally from what his party affiliation means nationally. Which of course means locally for us all.

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:59 pm  

Him wrote:

I'm sorry, are you suggesting I should have stated definitively about a hypothetical, fictional scenario?

yes, you seem so sure about what would have happened.

No. The level of privatisation would be lower. Since there would have been no free schools, no NHS commissioning groups and no outsourcing of core police activities to that flagship of the private sector that is G4S.

if, before the last election there were 0 free schools, then after the election, had labour won, there would still be 0 free schools so how would it be lower? not sure how many more academies, built by the likes of rod aldridge, labour donor and capita bod. obviously i'm not suggesting capita got lots of government contracts by donating a few bob to them. the same G4S that provided security for the labour party conference? yes, ed m would be booting them into touch quick smart!

Labour's recession? Interesting. What did Labour do to bring down Lehmann Brothers?
As for unemployment, it jumped in 2008. You know, when the worlds banks collapsed. It was actually coming down slightly when the Tories took office. Then it went up by around 300,000. Not as a result of an economic collapse across the world, but as a result of Tory government policies which, as I said, affected the poorer areas the hardest.

ah right, because after 2010, the worlds economies bounced right back, especially europe where the germans most certainly haven't been doling out the cash left right and centre to basket case economies. here's a quick question, as unemployment continues to fall and we do emerge from this recession (because we will), will that be down to the coalition policies? oh, it went up by approx 200k. you give governments far too much credit to bring/end recessions, they just hope to god they're not in power when the inevitable fall hits.

How much of UK income do the top 1% receive? How much of UK wealth do the top 1% own? Have you factored in the regressive nature of other taxes such as VAT? Have you factored in the regressive nature of costs such as energy, food and water etc?
When you do those things I reckon the quarter of income tax they pay is a little generous.

oh, i've no doubts they receive lots of it, i'm sure they squirrel away masses of it in offshore accounts, all perfectly legally too. yet, they still stump up over a quarter of the income tax collected. fair play to 'em. and, to really top it off, they don't seem to shop at the local 'independent garage', think of the vat they pay on an aston martin whereas i bet i paid precisely bugger all vat on the £650 car i bought. i reckon their telly's might cost a bit more than mine too. now, you are absolutely correct on the whole energy, food and water as we all live in little 2 up 2 downs, if only these selfish swine had huge country piles that take an inordinate amount of energy to heat, perhaps a city place too. to suggest they don't pay their 'fair share' is, quite frankly, laughable

Oh and a nice little poll just for Ajw - the latest polling average puts the Tories 10 points down.
But even that won't deviate the thread away from what an idiot Osborne made of himself on a train.

is that all, 10 points? really. despite vaste swathes of the country being laid waste? christ, the tories will take that all day long with a couple of years still to and election.

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:10 pm  

DaveO wrote:

You seem a tad confused as to what you are voting for in a general election. This MP sounds as if he'd make a fine local councillor but you are completely ignoring that if you vote for him again at a general election what you will actually be voting for.

so, if you voted labour in 2010, you were actually endorsing their decision to screw the poorest in society with the abolition of the 10p tax rate? lets, hope these heartless swine aren't banging on about tory cuts.

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:54 pm  

samwire wrote:

yes, you seem so sure about what would have happened.

if, before the last election there were 0 free schools, then after the election, had labour won, there would still be 0 free schools so how would it be lower? not sure how many more academies, built by the likes of rod aldridge, labour donor and capita bod. obviously i'm not suggesting capita got lots of government contracts by donating a few bob to them. the same G4S that provided security for the labour party conference? yes, ed m would be booting them into touch quick smart!

ah right, because after 2010, the worlds economies bounced right back, especially europe where the germans most certainly haven't been doling out the cash left right and centre to basket case economies. here's a quick question, as unemployment continues to fall and we do emerge from this recession (because we will), will that be down to the coalition policies? oh, it went up by approx 200k. you give governments far too much credit to bring/end recessions, they just hope to god they're not in power when the inevitable fall hits.
oh, i've no doubts they receive lots of it, i'm sure they squirrel away masses of it in offshore accounts, all perfectly legally too. yet, they still stump up over a quarter of the income tax collected. fair play to 'em. and, to really top it off, they don't seem to shop at the local 'independent garage', think of the vat they pay on an aston martin whereas i bet i paid precisely bugger all vat on the £650 car i bought. i reckon their telly's might cost a bit more than mine too. now, you are absolutely correct on the whole energy, food and water as we all live in little 2 up 2 downs, if only these selfish swine had huge country piles that take an inordinate amount of energy to heat, perhaps a city place too. to suggest they don't pay their 'fair share' is, quite frankly, laughable

is that all, 10 points? really. despite vaste swathes of the country being laid waste? christ, the tories will take that all day long with a couple of years still to and election.

I like you. You're about as clueless as Ajw.
There are currently over 70 free schools. If Labour had been in there would have been 0. That is lower privatisation. As is fewer police functions privatised and no NHS commissioning groups which you conveniently ignored.

It's difficult to compare to European economies due to the restrictions of the Euro. The US however, was quickly into growth thanks to a fiscal stimulus.
Hmmm well Labour brought us out of one, then the Tories took us into one AFTER the causes of the global recession. That's not global/non-governmental effects, that's caused by government policies.
I don't pretend the government can hold back the global economic tides, but they can mitigate their effects. Labour did that to some degree. This government failed to do that.

As for tax - how much of the UK's income do the top 1% receive? How much of the UK's wealth do they own? Until you answer those questions the proportion of income tax they pay is irrelevant.
You really are making a fool of yourself now. It is accepted by every economic body that VAT is regressive, the last figures I saw was that poorer people paid 9.4% of their income compared to 4.8% of the top 10%'s income in VAT. As I said, that's not taking into account other regressive items such as energy, water etc so a quarter of income tax take is quite generous for the richest 1% of the country. They should be grateful to live in a country that provides them with the conditions to make such huge sums of money.

You obviously have no idea, 10 points is quite a large lead and would lead to a Labour majority of over 120 seats in parliament. As the Tories poll figures have been on a downward trend and being split apart by UKIP, it's worrying for the Tories. I see you have as much idea about polls as Ajw does. I'm sure Wikipedia can explain it all for you.

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:09 pm  

DaveO wrote:

It is duly noted you have completely ignored everything I said about what his party affiliation actually means. It means support for the destruction of the NHS for one thing.

As you know so much about him how often has he voted against the government on issues such as the NHS? Policies I assume you oppose yourself?

And by the way MP's from all parties support the Leeds Children's Heart Unit campaign. It will be interesting to see, due to your MP's support for the NHS reforms, just how care for children with chronic conditions is affected by that regardless of the outcome of this campaign.

You seem a tad confused as to what you are voting for in a general election. This MP sounds as if he'd make a fine local councillor but you are completely ignoring that if you vote for him again at a general election what you will actually be voting for. It won't be to save the Leeds children's heart unit. It will be for the polices his party supports at national level regardless of what he does in his constituency whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

The idea we can vote for our local MP because he or she is a good egg and nothing else matters is a truly head in the sand approach.

You simply can not divorce what he does locally from what his party affiliation means nationally. Which of course means locally for us all.

Not at all confused and not at all disappointed by his beliefs and voting record either because he is never afraid to address and explain his voting record online when challenged.

Lets be perfectly honest here, the policies that the LibDems are currently cow-towing to are nothing like the policies that they promoted in their general election campaign, and nor for that matter are the Conservatives.

I'm not a Lib-Dem supporter, I detest the nature of party politics which reduces parliament and its supporters to nothing less than a football crowd mentality where everything that "they" do is intrinsically wrong and everything that "we" do is by definition absolutely wonderful - thats bullshit politics.

To put it very simply, he is the only MP that I have known in the almost 40 years of my polling card to be so accessible and willing to explain exactly what it is he is doing every day of the week.

Do you know what your MP did today ?

I do.

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:16 pm  

Stop Press !

My MP today secured a debate on Nov 1st on the beer duty escalator, triggered by a CAMRA epetition and backed by the Hobgoblin brewery, its a topic that he feels very strongly about and always supports and promotes local micro breweries, barely a week goes by that he is not promoting or debating some issue within the brewing industry - currently engaged in a battle with PubCo regarding their tenancy agreements.

Do you know what your MP did today ?

I do.

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:00 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

I detest the nature of party politics which reduces parliament and its supporters to nothing less than a football crowd mentality where everything that "they" do is intrinsically wrong and everything that "we" do is by definition absolutely wonderful - thats bullshit politics.

That's my view in a nutshell

Re: George Osbourne should have been a "pleb" : Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:17 pm  

Him wrote:

:lol:
I like you. You're about as clueless as Ajw.
There are currently over 70 free schools. If Labour had been in there would have been 0. That is lower privatisation. As is fewer police functions privatised and no NHS commissioning groups which you conveniently ignored.

It's difficult to compare to European economies due to the restrictions of the Euro. The US however, was quickly into growth thanks to a fiscal stimulus.
Hmmm well Labour brought us out of one, then the Tories took us into one AFTER the causes of the global recession. That's not global/non-governmental effects, that's caused by government policies.
I don't pretend the government can hold back the global economic tides, but they can mitigate their effects. Labour did that to some degree. This government failed to do that.

As for tax - how much of the UK's income do the top 1% receive? How much of the UK's wealth do they own? Until you answer those questions the proportion of income tax they pay is irrelevant.
You really are making a fool of yourself now. It is accepted by every economic body that VAT is regressive, the last figures I saw was that poorer people paid 9.4% of their income compared to 4.8% of the top 10%'s income in VAT. As I said, that's not taking into account other regressive items such as energy, water etc so a quarter of income tax take is quite generous for the richest 1% of the country. They should be grateful to live in a country that provides them with the conditions to make such huge sums of money.

You obviously have no idea, 10 points is quite a large lead and would lead to a Labour majority of over 120 seats in parliament. As the Tories poll figures have been on a downward trend and being split apart by UKIP, it's worrying for the Tories. I see you have as much idea about polls as Ajw does. I'm sure Wikipedia can explain it all for you.

It doesn't matter what the polls say, my opinion is the only one that matters and if every poll you produce goes against my opinion, then my opinion is still more valid.

Isn't that how polls work....

Cringeworthy...