Re: OMG - Christian wins employment tribunal : Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:27 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Except that isn't a description of a 'true' Christian or indeed a description of a 'true' anyone with any modicum of belief in anything whatsoever. Nobody can truly 'live and let live'. We all draw lines in the sand.

What about people who believe in 'people'? I believe in people. I believe they are genuinely, in the vast majority good. I believe, in the vast majority, people are kind and loving and accepting and tolerant, I believe, in the main, that when you meet someone that person not only wishes you no harm, but actually wishes good things for you. I believe that, most 'bad' things that people do are done out of fear and not malevolence. I believe that, in the main, people are really not that interested in where i put my penis. I believe that as long as others arent getting hurt most people wish that you would 'do whatever makes you happy'.

Do i have to frame that as fairy story told by a big man in the sky who is benevolent but doles out violent retribution, that loves me unconditionally but will punish me with the worst pain and torture imaginable, for eternity if i break one of his special rules, that is omnipotent and loving but allows horrific things to happen, is omniscient but needs me to talk to him and asks for tax breaks and money for that to be a belief that counts?

Re: OMG - Christian wins employment tribunal : Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:39 pm  

Standee wrote:

Agreed, a victory for bigoted homophobes.

A man who criticizes something that is already illegal is a bigoted homophobe? He didn't say anything bad about homosexuals, he just said he thinks that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Re: OMG - Christian wins employment tribunal : Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:49 pm  

wigan_rlfc wrote:

A man who criticizes something that is already illegal is a bigoted homophobe? He didn't say anything bad about homosexuals, he just said he thinks that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

because homosexual love is clearly different from 'normal' love, of course they shouldnt be able to express it in the same way.

Re: OMG - Christian wins employment tribunal : Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:43 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

because homosexual love is clearly different from 'normal' love, of course they shouldnt be able to express it in the same way.

Homosexual love is obviously different from heterosexual love: the former is between members of the same gender, the latter between members of the opposite gender. Obviously they are different.

Re: OMG - Christian wins employment tribunal : Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:50 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

What about people who believe in 'people'? I believe in people. I believe they are genuinely, in the vast majority good. I believe, in the vast majority, people are kind and loving and accepting and tolerant, I believe, in the main, that when you meet someone that person not only wishes you no harm, but actually wishes good things for you. I believe that, most 'bad' things that people do are done out of fear and not malevolence. I believe that, in the main, people are really not that interested in where i put my penis. I believe that as long as others arent getting hurt most people wish that you would 'do whatever makes you happy'.

Do i have to frame that as fairy story told by a big man in the sky who is benevolent but doles out violent retribution, that loves me unconditionally but will punish me with the worst pain and torture imaginable, for eternity if i break one of his special rules, that is omnipotent and loving but allows horrific things to happen, is omniscient but needs me to talk to him and asks for tax breaks and money for that to be a belief that counts?

There you are then. Your faith is in people. All you've done there is reversed polarity: a religious person, of the monotheist religions anyway, will believe that human beings are capable of acts of incredible goodness AND acts of incredible badness. They give credit to their God for the good, and to Satan for the bad, but they place responsibility for choosing which option to take firmly on the shoulders of the human being.

I actually rather like that. I think the religious person has a much clearer view of human nature than what you're espousing. It certainly fits better with my experience of people, which has been a mix of the good, the bad and the outright ugly.

Re: OMG - Christian wins employment tribunal : Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:02 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Homosexual love is obviously different from heterosexual love: the former is between members of the same gender, the latter between members of the opposite gender. Obviously they are different.

Yes, in the same way heterosexual love between black people is different to heterosexual love between white people, the former is between black people, the latter white people. Obviously they are different.

Re: OMG - Christian wins employment tribunal : Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:02 pm  

I see the f'whit.... I mean "laypeople" have kept the church in the dark ages when it comes to women Bishops, what a bunch of complete bigoted w@nkers the "congregation" of the Church of England are.

Re: OMG - Christian wins employment tribunal : Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:05 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

There you are then. Your faith is in people. All you've done there is reversed polarity:

Magnets man, they are f@cking magic

a religious person, of the monotheist religions anyway, will believe that human beings are capable of acts of incredible goodness AND acts of incredible badness. They give credit to their God for the good, and to Satan for the bad, but they place responsibility for choosing which option to take firmly on the shoulders of the human being.

as opposed to everyone else in the world?

I actually rather like that. I think the religious person has a much clearer view of human nature than what you're espousing. It certainly fits better with my experience of people, which has been a mix of the good, the bad and the outright ugly.

If that lie fits better with your experience of the world, you should really ask yourself why your view of the world needs to be based on a lie.

Re: OMG - Christian wins employment tribunal : Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:24 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Homosexual love is obviously different from heterosexual love: the former is between members of the same gender, the latter between members of the opposite gender. Obviously they are different.

wow, just wow.

Re: OMG - Christian wins employment tribunal : Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:30 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Yes, in the same way heterosexual love between black people is different to heterosexual love between white people, the former is between black people, the latter white people. Obviously they are different.

Skin colour makes no difference when it comes to sex. If we are talking about the love which leads to marriage and I presume we are given the topic of the OP, then sex has to be a part of that. Straight sex and gay sex are different, at the very least because of the gender issues. Therefore, the love between a straight couple and a gay couple cannot be the same. I'm not saying it is wrong; I'm making no value judgement at all. But to state the two are the same is illogical, simply due to the sexual element.