Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 4:35 pm  

Mintball wrote:

What do you feel about someone moving to a different part of the UK for look for work? Should that depend on education, infrastructure being able to cope, work availablilty etc? If not, why not?

We're all part of the same system though, tax, health, education, the standards are the same or in some case the targets are the same.
I moved to better myself from the North-West to the South-East, under micro scrutiny makes me look hypocritical but i'm still paying taxes to fund people in the North-West, their children, their education, their health.

An argument could be that if everything was centralised and all of the EU followed the same pattern/standards across the board then that would be exactly the same scenario as the question you posed but it's a pipedream, countries have their own economies and rely on different means to support themselves, small example is we can't market ourselves as a great summer hotspot like Spain/Portugal/Greece etc etc so tourism isn't as big and/or differently marketed in this country.

You can't create a catch all economic system and I'd love some great socialist world like a Star Trek ran Earth but the truth is in the real world we are corrupt and untrustworthy as a species, with a little bit of power we only look to feather our own nest.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 4:44 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

You are aware that although the USA is ostensibly a single nation, it is in reality a commonwealth of 50 individual States? There is a clue in the name.

And England is 48 individual counties

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 5:07 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

We're all part of the same system though, tax, health, education, the standards are the same or in some case the targets are the same...

Not quite. There are substantial differences on a number of issues between, say, England and Wales. Prescription charges, for instance. In Scotland, tuition fees. In Northern Ireland, different laws on abortion.

We have regional tax variations via council tax.

Education has vast differences – and these are increasing – simply because not all schools are state schools, and many are run under a very different ethos with very different standards.

Horatio Yed wrote:

I moved to better myself from the North-West to the South-East, under micro scrutiny makes me look hypocritical but i'm still paying taxes to fund people in the North-West, their children, their education, their health...

I'm not trying to 'micro scrutinise' you – or to make you look anything. I'm attempting to explore the issues.

Horatio Yed wrote:

An argument could be that if everything was centralised and all of the EU followed the same pattern/standards across the board then that would be exactly the same scenario as the question you posed but it's a pipedream, countries have their own economies and rely on different means to support themselves, small example is we can't market ourselves as a great summer hotspot like Spain/Portugal/Greece etc etc so tourism isn't as big and/or differently marketed in this country...

We're a different sort of tourist destination – we score well for history and culture, for instance.

But then again, different parts of the UK (a federation of countries) have different tourist benefits. I suspect not everyone of the four nations has the same (pro-rata) levels of tourism – let alone all the constituent parts of England. The likes of London and Stratford and York will be helping subsidise other areas that see very few visitors.

But to go back, you made comments earlier about infrastructure, for instance. Now if you look at internal migration within England alone, then much of it has, over the last 30 or so years, been toward London and the south east for, in essence, the reasons that you – and I – moved in that direction.

That inevitably puts strains on the infrastructure – I think there are issues around precisely that, given all the new flats I see going up for all the people moving into my general area, which is getting particularly trendy with young professionals. These aren't your eastern Europeans. Some are from mainland Europe (it is worth noting that we are Europeans, whether we like it or not), but some are from the US/Canada and the majority are from the UK.

Should that be allowed to happen, if increasing stress on the infrastructure is an issue?

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 5:39 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

And England is 48 individual counties

Counties that are not allowed to levy their own taxes, apart from rates etc nor allowed to pass laws particular to their specific geo-political area

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 6:36 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Counties that are not allowed to levy their own taxes, apart from rates etc nor allowed to pass laws particular to their specific geo-political area

Holding online conversations with Americans as I am want to do now and again, it never ceases to amaze me just how many of them are hyper-patriotic to an ethos of "USA" and yet often very anti-government to the point where part of the issue of wanting to own guns is almost as a warning to central government that they will not be controlled by their own armed forces if it ever came to a situation when the government decreed it so - I often get the feeling that (especially with Obama) they are just one wrong word away from another civil war and if it kicks off its going to start in Utah, a state that seems to have an above average mix of chip-on-shoulder, very far right republicans for whom central government is an unnecessary expense.

Ultra-patriotic but the patriotism being directed to the flag rather than the country, its a very strange mix and something that we cannot compare our union of countries to at all.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 6:38 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Counties that are not allowed to levy their own taxes, apart from rates etc nor allowed to pass laws particular to their specific geo-political area

Ah right, just thought we were posting random facts.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 8:32 pm  

Standee wrote:

try it and see how far you get

in fact, try driving a Nissan Pathfinder through the tunnel and not getting stopped and searched both ends, and if you want to borrow one, PM me.

Europe is nowhere near as "open" as UKIP or others would suggest.

That is the problem, SOME of what UKIP want to do is quite right, as is SOME of Labour and SOME of the Conservatives.

Mainland Europe is hugely open. I frequently travel by both car and air from Germany to the UK and back. And have never once been stopped and searched at customs.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Sun May 05, 2013 9:17 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Holding online conversations with Americans as I am want to do now and again, it never ceases to amaze me just how many of them are hyper-patriotic to an ethos of "USA" and yet often very anti-government to the point where part of the issue of wanting to own guns is almost as a warning to central government that they will not be controlled by their own armed forces if it ever came to a situation when the government decreed it so - I often get the feeling that (especially with Obama) they are just one wrong word away from another civil war and if it kicks off its going to start in Utah, a state that seems to have an above average mix of chip-on-shoulder, very far right republicans for whom central government is an unnecessary expense.

Ultra-patriotic but the patriotism being directed to the flag rather than the country, its a very strange mix and something that we cannot compare our union of countries to at all.

Countries or counties?

Re: The rise of UKIP : Mon May 06, 2013 6:33 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Countries or counties?

Ah yes, counties...

Countries if you want to extend it to the Union of Europe for even that does not reflect the armed response that mid-america is prepared (so they say) to take against its own government whilst still defending the flag.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Mon May 06, 2013 7:36 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

Ah yes, counties...

Countries if you want to extend it to the Union of Europe for even that does not reflect the armed response that mid-america is prepared (so they say) to take against its own government whilst still defending the flag.