Re: Motorway Speed Limits Revisited : Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:11 am  

Horatio Yed wrote:

There's a road from Capel Curig to Llanberis in Snowdon, WOW if anyone would want to drive more than 20mph and not take it in, they have no soul.

Had a look on Street View. A beautiful road. But the stretch I saw had drystone walls right on the edge of a narrow road and pedestrians walking on the road.

If you want to take in the views then you need to let a real driver do the driving and sit in the passenger seat. If you think you can drive safely AND take in the views then you are a fool.

Re: Motorway Speed Limits Revisited : Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:41 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

...FA was advocating that it's perfectly fine to drive at 30mph in a 60mph limit road because people might be taking in the scenery. Let's just hope that one of your pedestrians hasn't fallen into the road ahead while you and FA are checking out the scenery though.

Er, there are no pedestrians, and taking in the scenic views does NOT equate to not looking where you are going.

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

...
If you want to take in the views then you need to let a real driver do the driving and sit in the passenger seat. If you think you can drive safely AND take in the views then you are a fool.

There is a fool in the conversation, but it isn't me. The fact is, you can't help but take in the views, and this is because, as a human, you have both central and peripheral vision, and a wide expanse of view is within your field of view. Even if at all times you keep your eyes right on the centre of the tarmac, it will not stop you from seeing those mountains. I can't believe you are seriously suggesting otherwise, to be honest. It's silly.

Re: Motorway Speed Limits Revisited : Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:36 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Er, there are no pedestrians, and taking in the scenic views does NOT equate to not looking where you are going.

JerryChicken wrote:

What of pedestrians approaching from the side out of this scenery, are we to ignore them until they become part of the black stuff ?

You obviously look at the thread as well as you drive.

There is a fool in the conversation, but it isn't me. The fact is, you can't help but take in the views, and this is because, as a human, you have both central and peripheral vision, and a wide expanse of view is within your field of view. Even if at all times you keep your eyes right on the centre of the tarmac, it will not stop you from seeing those mountains. I can't believe you are seriously suggesting otherwise, to be honest. It's silly.

I'm not suggesting that you cannot see the scenery, but if you're driving at 30mph in a 60mph limit area to "take in the scenery" like you suggested, your concentration clearly isn't on driving that ~1 tonne piece of machinery.

Like I said, driving as you described, is similarly bad driving to texting while driving, using a mobile phone, checking in a glovebox and terrible driving like that. Yes, hundreds of thousands of people do get away with these stupid acts every day, but there's also the numerous accidents that are caused every day because too much attention is paid to distractions rather than driving.

Re: Motorway Speed Limits Revisited : Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:48 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: You obviously look at the thread as well as you drive. Nope, there really are NO pedestrians to be seen in the picture. None. Zilch. Zero. A total absence of pedestrians. However, the scenic driver would I suggest be safer than you; acording to you, your eyes are fixated on the road. IF there were pedestrians lurking in the scenery, then the scenic driver would see them (seeing as he is taking in the scenery) but you would not see them (seeing as you refuse to take in the scenery) until presumably the moment they stepped on to the tarmac. Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: I'm not suggesting that you cannot see the scenery, but if you're driving at 30mph in a 60mph limit area to "take in the scenery" like you suggested, your concentration clearly isn't on driving that ~1 tonne piece of machinery. A complete non sequitur. I would suggest that the overwhelming majority of drivers would feel perfectly competent to take their car on a gentle scenic drive on country roads, and your suggestion that doing so is dangerous and hinders safe driving is novel. It may be for you, but I think you're on your own. The AA is hardly known for advocating dangerous driving, and they publish a list of top ten scenic drives, as do many motorist and touring organisations in many countries. If you are that rare person (I've never previously met one) who doesn't feel they can partake in a scenic drive safely, then certainly don't do it, but spare the rest of us your ludicrous worries. Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: Like I said, driving as you described, is similarly bad driving to texting while driving, using a mobile phone, checking in a glovebox and terrible driving like that. No it is not, it is not remotely like that, it is pretty much the direct opposite. The danger of texting etc is TAKING YOUR EYES OFF THE ROAD. Taking in the scenery on a scenic drive does not involve any such thing, (for normal people) as their brain is designed to, and does, take in the whole picture, not just some tiny part of it. Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: Yes, hundreds of thousands of people do get away with these stupid acts every day, but there's also the numerous accidents that are caused every day because too much attention is paid to distractions rather than driving. The scenic view is NOT a "distraction". It is just "the view". The point you seem to somehow miss is that the field of view ahead is EXACTLY the same size and shape, whatever is in it. I love driving places like the Highlands, the Lakes, the Dales, the European mountain ranges etc for many reasons but one constant is that the drives can be so bloody enjoyable, the views brilliant. I have done the Hard Knott and Wry Nose passes many times over m,any years, and you certainly wouldn't want to distract yourself from the road on those, nor on Alpine hairpins or roads with a mammoth drop on one side, but I do not find it detracts at all from the breathtaking scenery. Have a look at the hundred or so images here. If you are seriously saying you could drive that route but not appreciate the scenery then I don't believe a word of it. If this view would not send a shiver down your spine as you descended, then I'm sorry but you're not normal.

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: You obviously look at the thread as well as you drive. Nope, there really are NO pedestrians to be seen in the picture. None. Zilch. Zero. A total absence of pedestrians. However, the scenic driver would I suggest be safer than you; acording to you, your eyes are fixated on the road. IF there were pedestrians lurking in the scenery, then the scenic driver would see them (seeing as he is taking in the scenery) but you would not see them (seeing as you refuse to take in the scenery) until presumably the moment they stepped on to the tarmac. Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: I'm not suggesting that you cannot see the scenery, but if you're driving at 30mph in a 60mph limit area to "take in the scenery" like you suggested, your concentration clearly isn't on driving that ~1 tonne piece of machinery. A complete non sequitur. I would suggest that the overwhelming majority of drivers would feel perfectly competent to take their car on a gentle scenic drive on country roads, and your suggestion that doing so is dangerous and hinders safe driving is novel. It may be for you, but I think you're on your own. The AA is hardly known for advocating dangerous driving, and they publish a list of top ten scenic drives, as do many motorist and touring organisations in many countries. If you are that rare person (I've never previously met one) who doesn't feel they can partake in a scenic drive safely, then certainly don't do it, but spare the rest of us your ludicrous worries. Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: Like I said, driving as you described, is similarly bad driving to texting while driving, using a mobile phone, checking in a glovebox and terrible driving like that. No it is not, it is not remotely like that, it is pretty much the direct opposite. The danger of texting etc is TAKING YOUR EYES OFF THE ROAD. Taking in the scenery on a scenic drive does not involve any such thing, (for normal people) as their brain is designed to, and does, take in the whole picture, not just some tiny part of it. Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: Yes, hundreds of thousands of people do get away with these stupid acts every day, but there's also the numerous accidents that are caused every day because too much attention is paid to distractions rather than driving. The scenic view is NOT a "distraction". It is just "the view". The point you seem to somehow miss is that the field of view ahead is EXACTLY the same size and shape, whatever is in it. I love driving places like the Highlands, the Lakes, the Dales, the European mountain ranges etc for many reasons but one constant is that the drives can be so bloody enjoyable, the views brilliant. I have done the Hard Knott and Wry Nose passes many times over m,any years, and you certainly wouldn't want to distract yourself from the road on those, nor on Alpine hairpins or roads with a mammoth drop on one side, but I do not find it detracts at all from the breathtaking scenery. Have a look at the hundred or so images here. If you are seriously saying you could drive that route but not appreciate the scenery then I don't believe a word of it. If this view would not send a shiver down your spine as you descended, then I'm sorry but you're not normal.

Re: Motorway Speed Limits Revisited : Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:36 pm  

I always like taking in the scenery of the Howgill Fells from the M6 at 70+ when I'm up that way.

Re: Motorway Speed Limits Revisited : Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:30 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Of course you can, on a quiet country lane, but not at high speed. There are any number of "scenic routes" in the UK and hundreds of them are officially signposted as such.

.
That's what I'm talking about. If you think you need to stop to take in these sights then you do, as each should drive within their limitations, but I would suggest most experienced drivers would just drive along whilst simultaneously being able to enjoy the jaw-dropping views.

I've driven through there many times, if you can't take in the view while driving then you shouldn't be behind the bloody wheel.

Re: Motorway Speed Limits Revisited : Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:31 pm  

Has anyone ever had a Field Test done on their eyes?

I only ask because I have one every nine months as part of my glaucoma testing (haven't got it, yet, but its hereditary and my father had it), its a test on each eye to see how wide your field of vision is, I pass it every time (so far) so I know better than anyone that my field of vision is normal and so can categorically tell you all that in that photo above, you would actually have even more of a field of vision than that shown (a photographer would probably confirm what that particular angle is for that lens).

Its impossible to not see things in an almost 180 degree field, whether you want to or not.

Re: Motorway Speed Limits Revisited : Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:43 am  

Big Graeme wrote:

I've driven through there many times, if you can't take in the view while driving then you shouldn't be behind the bloody wheel.

Actually, further processing of the image reveals that both you and I owe LGJM an apology:

Re: Motorway Speed Limits Revisited : Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:04 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

Has anyone ever had a Field Test done on their eyes?

I only ask because I have one every nine months as part of my glaucoma testing (haven't got it, yet, but its hereditary and my father had it), its a test on each eye to see how wide your field of vision is, I pass it every time (so far) so I know better than anyone that my field of vision is normal and so can categorically tell you all that in that photo above, you would actually have even more of a field of vision than that shown (a photographer would probably confirm what that particular angle is for that lens).

Its impossible to not see things in an almost 180 degree field, whether you want to or not.

According to that the driver and a front seat passenger looking out of the windscreen are seeing similar things. But that's complete horse crap and anyone with any experience of driving knows that. The driver should be concentrating on driving and the passenger will simply be taking in the views. They will see completely different things.

This whole argument started because someone said it was annoying when people dawdle at 30mph in a 60 limit and FA argued it was perfectly fine to look at beautiful scenery while driving. There have been some beautiful pictures of roads on here. FA obviously thinks they are so beautiful they are worth slowing down for, but not actually stopping for.

Of course most people who drive poorly and take in too much scenery while they're driving will get away with it. It's probably a 1/100,000 chance that the precise moment that your looking at the scenery is when a deer runs across your path. But it is still shoddy driving to be driving at 30mph in a 60mph limit road just because you want to look at the scenery.

Re: Motorway Speed Limits Revisited : Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:10 am  

Even without Bigfoot ignoring the green cross code and stepping out in front of you, it's convenient that the road and mountain have been perfectly placed so you can drive. I'm confident that the road designers and god have collaborated so that the beautiful scenery isn't at a 90 degree angle so the driver has to turn his head to take it in.