Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:39 pm  

Mintball wrote:

:CRAZY: I'm curious: just how much risk of tremors, earthquakes, screwed-up water etc do you personally consider acceptable in the dash for gas?

That's the point, we don't know until we've tried it, unless our geology is identical in every single respect to elsewhere in the world where others have tried.

Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:44 pm  

Sheldon wrote:

You're quite right, there's nothing else we can do. No chance of using renewable energy at all.

Who gives a love what affect it has on the environment and safety, as long as someone can make a profit.

We already do use renewables, this is just another potential source.

Do you drive? Do you use public transport? Believe it or not those great long stretches of tarmac didn't evolve with the dinosaurs. How much damage to the environment did building those things do? There was once a beautiful hill not far from me until roadbuilders decided it'd look better if they dug, drilled and blew their way through it, but hey, I can now get to work quicker.
Contrary to popular belief we're not some tin pot country who doesn't know how to tie it's own shoelaces let alone dig a sodding deep hole in search of fuel.

Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:57 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

We already do use renewables, this is just another potential source.

Do you drive? Do you use public transport? Believe it or not those great long stretches of tarmac didn't evolve with the dinosaurs. How much damage to the environment did building those things do? There was once a beautiful hill not far from me until roadbuilders decided it'd look better if they dug, drilled and blew their way through it, but hey, I can now get to work quicker.
Contrary to popular belief we're not some tin pot country who doesn't know how to tie it's own shoelaces let alone dig a sodding deep hole in search of fuel.

So why not wait till a full independent safety report can be done?

Profit over people again.

Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:07 pm  

Sheldon wrote:

So why not wait till a full independent safety report can be done?

Profit over people again.

Because they take time, money and no-one actually knows what's going to happen until the drilling has started.

Do you have a mobile phone? Look into the mining of Coltan, then, when you've purged your life of all the things it's used in, come back and talk about profit over people.

Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:29 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

Because they take time, money and no-one actually knows what's going to happen until the drilling has started.

Do you have a mobile phone? Look into the mining of Coltan, then, when you've purged your life of all the things it's used in, come back and talk about profit over people.

Not money, we aren't going to waste money on making sure people are safe?

You do know I wasn't involved in mining Coltan. And I make sure the Coltan in my phone wasn't sourced in the Congo.

Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:33 pm  

Sheldon wrote:

You do know I wasn't involved in mining Coltan. And I make sure the Coltan in my phone wasn't sourced in the Congo.

You don't have to be involved in the mining of it, just the using of it. Angry Birds over people.

I'm sure you do.

Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:43 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

You don't have to be involved in the mining of it, just the using of it. Angry Birds over people.

I'm sure you do.

I'd like to eradicate everything from my life that causes the environment harm and puts people's safety at unnecessary risk, reducing my carbon footprint is something I'm working on. It doesn't mean I will succeed or do it over night.

All you're doing is highlighting the greed of these companies and showing the reasons I oppose fracking.

Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:36 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

That's the point, we don't know until we've tried it, unless our geology is identical in every single respect to elsewhere in the world where others have tried.

I don't suppose they expected that the geology around Blackpool was going to mean that mining resulted in tremors, do you?

And I don't suppose that anywhere else it's caused problems they looked at the geology and thought: 'wow, this could cause problems but let's go ahead anyway', do you?

You're talking about taking risks that could have major consequences that are extremely difficult and costly (for the taxpayer, of course) to deal with. And for what? As has been discussed, it's unlikely to be in order to bring down prices to UK customers, which also means that it isn't going to do anything for energy security, so that only leaves one thing: private profit.

Now I'm not against profit per se, but private profit on the basis of major risk to communities and the environment? Really? You consider that to be acceptable and somehow positive?

It reminds me of the old comment about knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Re: Fracking revisited : Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:51 am  

I did some reading a few years back about having a tidal barrage at the Severn estuary, would have cost less than it it did to host the 2012 olympics but Brown turned it down as have the tories fairly recently apparently on the back of no evidence of benefit/funding/environmental issues...http://www.greenwisebusiness.co.uk/news ... -4088.aspx So 5% of the UKs total electricity requirements for the next 125 years wasn't going to cut the mustard..That HS2 and indeed the fracking projects will undoubtly cause far more damage and provide far less benefit (probably negative) underlines that it's down to certain people not getting fat brown envelopes from it. Seemingly doesn't matter what lot are in charge they all want backhanders at the expense of everyone else. Shale gas is just another sell out (that would have happened under Labour too let's not disillusion ourselves) that will not benefit joe public in any measureable way.

I did some reading a few years back about having a tidal barrage at the Severn estuary, would have cost less than it it did to host the 2012 olympics but Brown turned it down as have the tories fairly recently apparently on the back of no evidence of benefit/funding/environmental issues...http://www.greenwisebusiness.co.uk/news ... -4088.aspx So 5% of the UKs total electricity requirements for the next 125 years wasn't going to cut the mustard..That HS2 and indeed the fracking projects will undoubtly cause far more damage and provide far less benefit (probably negative) underlines that it's down to certain people not getting fat brown envelopes from it. Seemingly doesn't matter what lot are in charge they all want backhanders at the expense of everyone else. Shale gas is just another sell out (that would have happened under Labour too let's not disillusion ourselves) that will not benefit joe public in any measureable way.

Re: Fracking revisited : Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:57 am  

Mintball wrote:

:WALL:

I don't suppose they expected that the geology around Blackpool was going to mean that mining resulted in tremors, do you?

And I don't suppose that anywhere else it's caused problems they looked at the geology and thought: 'wow, this could cause problems but let's go ahead anyway', do you?

You're talking about taking risks that could have major consequences that are extremely difficult and costly (for the taxpayer, of course) to deal with. And for what? As has been discussed, it's unlikely to be in order to bring down prices to UK customers, which also means that it isn't going to do anything for energy security, so that only leaves one thing: private profit.

Now I'm not against profit per se, but private profit on the basis of major risk to communities and the environment? Really? You consider that to be acceptable and somehow positive?

It reminds me of the old comment about knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

You have supported mining and think we should still be mining. That has had significant downsides: death to thousands who dig the coal out of the ground, subsidence all over northern England. Vast areas of land cannot built on because of the threat of subsidence from old mining activity. Impact on public services - the train line between Sheffield and Hull was closed for months due to slippage from Hatfield Colliery, the school in Aberfan etc.

Extracting raw material from the land will have impacts, why are you so against Fracking yet so supportive of mining?