Re: The General Election Thread : Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:41 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Well that's my point, people are too lazy, myself included. It's not easy to interpret what each party is going for in terms of their approach to the big policies this time, none of the parties are going into any real depth about them. Try it out, ask a couple of people who they are voting for, then ask them why, most won't know. Most people who aren't too lazy are too busy, which supports my point. A huge percentage of those voting won't really know why or understand what they are voting for on each key issue. The parties at the moment are doing very little to get their policies across to the people, fuelling the switch off most people have around politics. People care about policies but are not being given anything to get engaged by. Huge sums are spent on branding, marketing and PR and I'd bet most people haven't a clue what is going on.

I agree that a lot of people are pretty clueless as to what's going on, but completely disagree that the parties are doing little to communicate their policies. They aren't difficult to find, and over the next few weeks they'll be all over the media.

Almost every news website now has a 'politics for f'kin idiots' section which gives an easy outline of each party's pledges and policies. Politics in general and now the election are all over any decent news outlet. Unfortunately for British society, huge swathes of our population care more about their facebook feed, or which TOWIE 'star' is in a bikini this week, or what's happening in Corrie...etc...and there lies the core of the issue. Politics and politicians aren't, and never will be, 'cool'.

Too many people are too feckless and too lazy to educate themselves. There's no excuse for that but they can't then complain if they don't get the government they wanted, but the one they deserve.

Re: The General Election Thread : Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:58 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Vote tory: Get more and more vicious austerity

Vote Labour: get more austerity at a slightly slower pace

Vote LimpDem: get yourself to a shrink as quick as you can

Vote UPRIK: get fooked

Vote Green and get...a hyper version of Blair's outrageous open-door immigration/asylum seeker policy? Christ, even the most blinkered tree-hugger can see immigration needs to be controlled.

I genuinely cannot see why anyone with a brain would vote Green. They might be 'closest' to your beliefs, but you may as well vote Tory. Your Green vote is a dead vote.

That said, and even though it's indicative of their barmpot policies, a 35-hour working week does sound nice.

Re: The General Election Thread : Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:20 pm  

A question for the 'anyone but the Tories' mob: Why? What is it about the 2010-2015 government and prospective 2015 onward government you find so repulsive? Are you the legacy of family loyalty, do you think they've done a bad job, or are you simply hung up on the past and the Thatcher years - in which case I'd say grow up.

They took on a shattered economy and seem to have done as well, if not better, than most. There are issues of course, such as zero-hours, etc, but things are certainly turning around. My line of work depends in part on a positive corporate outlook and I know from my meetings with a number of huge multinationals all the way down to local SMEs that things are looking up, reflected in their spend and projections.

So, why do you hate the Tories, today, in 2015? Anyone banging on about Cameron being an Etonian will get the contempt they deserve.

p.s. I'm not particularly Tory. Neither am I Labour or anyone else right now (though I'm certainly not Green ). I'll make my mind up in due course. There are parts of at least 4 policies I agree with, but none stand out.

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:36 am  

I would never vote Tory at General Election (unless they drastically changed their policies obviously) but I have done at local council elections.

I've also voted Lib Dem at both general and local elections in the past, so whilst I am, in general a Labour voter I'm not rabidly so and have reservations over them at both local and national level.

Taking 2010-2015 in isolation, the reason I won't vote Tory and would back "anyone but Tories" is the fact I don't think they've handled the economy that well. It's been a very slow recovery and, importantly for me, the poor and vulnerable have been unfairly targeted by the Tory government. Ontop of that I'm very, very unhappy with the creeping privatisation of services from the NHS to police to prisons to justice to welfare etc. I know that some privatisation went on under Labour last time and I was unhappy about that too. It's not because it's more efficient or run better, it's just a way of absolving responsibility and reducing the quality of the service without actually admitting it.

All I can see happening if the Tories get back in again is more of that.

[DaveO]

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:54 am  

Cronus wrote:

A question for the 'anyone but the Tories' mob: Why? What is it about the 2010-2015 government and prospective 2015 onward government you find so repulsive? Are you the legacy of family loyalty, do you think they've done a bad job, or are you simply hung up on the past and the Thatcher years - in which case I'd say grow up.

They took on a shattered economy and seem to have done as well, if not better, than most. There are issues of course, such as zero-hours, etc, but things are certainly turning around. My line of work depends in part on a positive corporate outlook and I know from my meetings with a number of huge multinationals all the way down to local SMEs that things are looking up, reflected in their spend and projections.

So, why do you hate the Tories, today, in 2015? Anyone banging on about Cameron being an Etonian will get the contempt they deserve.

p.s. I'm not particularly Tory. Neither am I Labour or anyone else right now (though I'm certainly not Green ). I'll make my mind up in due course. There are parts of at least 4 policies I agree with, but none stand out.

Where do I start? I suppose the first port of call is this bit of nonsense on your part. "They took on a shattered economy and seem to have done as well".

No they didn't. They took an economy growing at 2% when they took office and drove it into recession and the recovery, such as it is, has been nothing like it should have been as economies that tank typically rebound with strong growth and ours has been the worst ever recovery. Only today the productivity figures are the worst since world war 2 and that matters a great deal.

Low productivity = low wages as we are uncompetitive = lower standard of living = low tax receipts = longer to pay down the deficit.

They have missed every economic target they set. They have borrowed more in the last five years than Labour did in the previous 13, lost the AAA rating and have not rebalanced the economy as promised (another housing boom..).

How on earth do you conclude "they have done as well"?

However that is not why I will never vote for them. Economically illiterate they may be but the reason I won't vote for them is they are driven by an extreme right wing ideology which manifests itself in numerous ways.

The bedroom tax is one way. Workfare is another. Free labour for employers which drives wages down (which affects productivity...).

They also lie. "No increase in V.A.T" they said in 2010. They increased it. "No top down reorganisation of the NHS". They did just that. Yet here we are in 2015 with Cameron and Osborne saying "No increase in V.A.T". You believe them because????

One of THE biggest issues though is TTIP. If you don't know what that is Google it. As the Tories have it now if it is passed (its an EU wide free trade agreement with the USA) companies (USA companies) will be able to sue the government if they think government policy prevents them from making a profit (e.g. plain packaging for cigs). It will also lead to the inevitable full privatisation of the NHS.

Other countries in the EU have excluded their healthcare from it explicitly e.g. France. The Tories will not. I even wrote to my MP about this and he is a Tory so you can see I am not basing this on supposition but what he actually said. I got a long technical reply which said it was fantastic for trade and they weren't going to exclude the NHS. TTIP is NHS privatisation by the back door.

So there you go. Why not to vote Tory in one easy lesson.

What you may not know is I am the parent of an Autistic child who will soon turn 18 and be an adult and believe me if you think this is a long post as to why you would be insane to vote Tory, you want to be in my shoes in that regard. You'd probably consider assassination of each and every Tory MP rather than the ballot box (and lets not forget ,Cameron made a great play about his (now sadly deceased) disabled child in the last election...).

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:38 am  

Cronus wrote:

Almost every news website now has a 'politics for f'kin idiots' section which gives an easy outline of each party's pledges and policies.

Just to pick up on this one point, "pledges and policies" will be forgotten on May 8th just as soon as it becomes clear if we have an outright winner or a coalition, even quicker if its a coalition (did we not learn anything from 2010).

I regard tonights seven party debate on ITV as being akin to inviting seven double glazing companies to come around to your house on the same evening and argue amongst each other pitching for your business while you sit on the settee and wonder why you did it.

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:50 am  

Cronus wrote:

Vote Green and get...a hyper version of Blair's outrageous open-door immigration/asylum seeker policy? Christ, even the most blinkered tree-hugger can see immigration needs to be controlled.

I genuinely cannot see why anyone with a brain would vote Green. They might be 'closest' to your beliefs, but you may as well vote Tory. Your Green vote is a dead vote.

That said, and even though it's indicative of their barmpot policies, a 35-hour working week does sound nice.

I was one of the 2 million that voted for the Green Party at the 1989 EU election. They gained 15% of the vote but didnt win a seat. Despite that I regarded it as hugely significant vote. It demonstrated that quite a significant chunk of the electorate thought that environmental issues should be taken seriously.

It seems to me that much of the current support for the Green Party is coming from people who just want a more left wing alternative to Labour, and that environmental issues are a distinctly secondary consideration. That will provide the Green's with a short term boost, but ultimately I think it could be quite damaging for the party. It shouldnt be a party that only appeals to hard lefties.

Apparently the Brighton council, where the Greens have the most seats, has split into two factions. "Watermelons" - green on the outside and red on the inside, "Mangoes" - green on the outside yellow on the inside. It doesn't bode well for thieir future.

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:07 am  

Labour. Hate Tories - they're scum.

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:11 am  

By the way, the puppy has just ripped up ANOTHER communication from the Labour Party that was shoved through the door this morning, thats two in a week and he never touches any other mail - I'm beginning to think he has an opinion.

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:12 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

I was one of the 2 million that voted for the Green Party at the 1989 EU election. They gained 15% of the vote but didnt win a seat. Despite that I regarded it as hugely significant vote. It demonstrated that quite a significant chunk of the electorate thought that environmental issues should be taken seriously.

It seems to me that much of the current support for the Green Party is coming from people who just want a more left wing alternative to Labour, and that environmental issues are a distinctly secondary consideration. That will provide the Green's with a short term boost, but ultimately I think it could be quite damaging for the party. It shouldnt be a party that only appeals to hard lefties.

Apparently the Brighton council, where the Greens have the most seats, has split into two factions. "Watermelons" - green on the outside and red on the inside, "Mangoes" - green on the outside yellow on the inside. It doesn't bode well for thieir future.

Lots of lefties, even hard ones are very serious about environmental issues. Think you'll find that it is the hard and soft righties who are the deniers.