Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:00 pm  

tigertot wrote:

I am keen on the world being a better place. The world would be a much better place without the Daily Mail. I would seek medical help but the heartless Tories have destroyed the health service....

If the NHS is so bad how did it manage to deal with all the casualties from the London stabbing and the Manchester bombing?

When you really need it the NHS delivers a brilliant service - if you have tooth ache and you waste the valuable time of A&E staff then you probably get the service you deserve.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:22 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

If the NHS is so bad how did it manage to deal with all the casualties from the London stabbing and the Manchester bombing?

When you really need it the NHS delivers a brilliant service - if you have tooth ache and you waste the valuable time of A&E staff then you probably get the service you deserve.

Thats the point, its so underfunded that a lot of people can't even register with an NHs dentist so have no option but to clog up A&E. Tories are starving the NHS so the idea of privatisation becomes appealing and they can all profit from the subsequent share rises

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:44 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I take it from that comment, that you were happy with both of those results, WOW

I care not for the American presidents vote as I'm not American and can't vote. Yes whilst it has an effect wider reaching than America I also respect that a guy from North Dakota or Kansas has the right to vote for what he feels will help him, not some upset folk from Yorkshire. The sulking in the UK about him is really cringeworthy.

Actually voted remain but I respected and understood the leavers view and was embarrassed by again the sulking post vote by the remainers.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:53 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I said there were 1m people who simply cannot work, that would include you - I also said those people need to be provided for. So get off you high horse, read what is actually written not what you want it to say

I didn't want it to say anything, you didn't actually quote all of your rant when you replied to me

Sal Paradise wrote:

If people "genuinely" cannot work - probably about 1m through mental health or disability the state needs to provide for them. That doesn't include those who don't want to work and use disability as an means to an end.

The implication being that there are many more with disabilities who don't want to work, not because they can't.

If you ever had a serious, debilitating illness you would know how embarassing that statement is.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:42 am  

Hull White Star wrote:

I didn't want it to say anything, you didn't actually quote all of your rant when you replied to meThe implication being that there are many more with disabilities who don't want to work, not because they can't.

If you ever had a serious, debilitating illness you would know how embarassing that statement is.

What I said was how many people who claim disability genuinely cannot work? I would suggest it is closer to the 1m than it is to 3m.

I had significant mental issues following the death of my brother these went on for over 30 years until I had some cognitive treatment - It was suggested I could register as disabled due to severe depression. I didn't and have lived with it and worked around it. Not sure if that counts as an illness or a condition but you don't know anything about me so as I said get off you high horse.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:07 am  

TrinityIHC wrote:

Thats the point, its so underfunded that a lot of people can't even register with an NHs dentist so have no option but to clog up A&E. Tories are starving the NHS so the idea of privatisation becomes appealing and they can all profit from the subsequent share rises

That comes to the very heart of the argument for me:

1. What do we want the NHS to provide - basic healthcare that covers critical illnesses/conditions e.g. Child birth, A&E, general surgery but excludes the likes of dental, IVF, certain elements of cosmetic surgery, gender reassignment, incredibly expensive cancer treatments

2. All of the above

I disagree that the Tories are trying to force people down the private route - private dental care has been around since the 70s. I think the Tories are genuinely trying to say what do you want higher personal taxation and more money in the NHS. There doesn't appear to be an appetite for increases in personal taxation e.g. increases in NI to fund the NHS - although the Tories have left their manifesto vague in that area

Neither Labour or Tories have an adequate policy for funding the NHS. Labour will simply spend all the extra money on increasing salaries so the service will just be run by better paid staff - that is what happened last time Labour pumped a load of money into the NHS.

Labour tax and spend numbers simply don't add - the idea that you get the public sector in line with the rest of Europe but the only people who are going to fund it are the well off and business doesn't stack up. In Europe where they have a public sector in line with Labour's aspirations personal taxation is on a much higher level. Business needs to generate certain returns with most business making less than 10% net profit increasing CT by 8% can only be funded by higher prices so this is a very regressive way of increasing the tax take because it impacts everyone.

All that will happen is the tax take for CT with drop and that will have to come from somewhere - personal taxation across the board will have to rise to fund the 70bn of additional spending that Labour are committed to.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:24 am  

The biggest problem for Mrs May and the Tories, is that they clearly wan to cut all public services.
Their attempts to cut benefits for the disabled and aren't willing to make any commitment to pay public sector workers more than 1%, whilst at the same time, promising tax cuts to the better off AND accepting a 10% pay rise for themselves (I know the last increase was lower but, the point still stands).
They have had the worst election campaign in living memory, indeed, their representative on Newsnight, couldn't sight a worse campaign by any party, EVER and this has let Labour off the hook and may well lead to a hung parliament and this is when thing will become interesting.

IF there is an unofficial coalition between say, the Lib Dems, SNP and Labour, what will happen to Brexit and Scottish independence ?

THe SNP and Libdems would certainly push for remaining in the EU single market but, ironically, this would remove the need for a second independence referendum in Scotland.

THe vote tomorrow should be interesting and if Corbyn can mobilise the apathetic young voters, anything could happen.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:32 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

If the NHS is so bad how did it manage to deal with all the casualties from the London stabbing and the Manchester bombing?

It managed due to the dedication & brilliance of our nurses, doctors, porters & admin staff within the NHS. They come in at the drop of a hat despite it being their time off. These are for the most part relatively poorly paid who have barely had a wage rise in 7 years. I know a lot of people working in health & social services; every one of them is thoroughly depressed at the state of it.
No matter how hard they work they are never going to be financially rich. But at least they can look in the mirror or tell their kids they tried to improve the lot of those less fortunate.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:53 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What I said was how many people who claim disability genuinely cannot work? I would suggest it is closer to the 1m than it is to 3m.

I had significant mental issues following the death of my brother these went on for over 30 years until I had some cognitive treatment - It was suggested I could register as disabled due to severe depression. I didn't and have lived with it and worked around it. Not sure if that counts as an illness or a condition but you don't know anything about me so as I said get off you high horse.

And you obviously don't know anything about the current system, for example there hasn't been a "register" for the disabled for many years, no high horse for me.

Those of us that have been going through it for 7 years (yes we are regularly "assessed" if you can call it that), know that disability benefits have been designed to save money ie get as many people off as possible, Esther McVey dropped that clanger (cutting 20% off DLA/PIP) years ago. They failed with me.

Sorry about the loss of your brother, maybe you should have accepted more help disability wise then you may understand what you are talking about.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:01 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The biggest problem for Mrs May and the Tories, is that they clearly wan to cut all public services.
Their attempts to cut benefits for the disabled and aren't willing to make any commitment to pay public sector workers more than 1%, whilst at the same time, promising tax cuts to the better off AND accepting a 10% pay rise for themselves (I know the last increase was lower but, the point still stands).
They have had the worst election campaign in living memory, indeed, their representative on Newsnight, couldn't sight a worse campaign by any party, EVER and this has let Labour off the hook and may well lead to a hung parliament and this is when thing will become interesting.

IF there is an unofficial coalition between say, the Lib Dems, SNP and Labour, what will happen to Brexit and Scottish independence ?

THe SNP and Libdems would certainly push for remaining in the EU single market but, ironically, this would remove the need for a second independence referendum in Scotland.

THe vote tomorrow should be interesting and if Corbyn can mobilise the apathetic young voters, anything could happen.

I would agree May has been a disaster - only know have we seen Boris where are the rest of the front bench? The Tories performance is bordering on that of Michael Foot. Corbyn has had large rallies but only in very safe Labour seats.

It could be close so that will be interesting to see - if the Tories still have an overall majority that has to be the end for Corbyn because if he could defeat such an a lack lustre opposition then he is done. It is almost as if the Tories don't want to be responsible for the Brexit deal so would be happy to lose - I can't see any other reason for their abject performance. Labour's spending plans simply don't add - that is an easy target but the Tories haven't gone there - its bizarre. Maybe the polls are telling them they have it in the bag but its she/they have been terrible