Re: Death penalty? : Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:49 am  

DaveO wrote:

What about plain clothes police officers? If you murdered one of those you could argue you didn't know they were a police officer or on duty. I presume you would want the perpetrator executed whereas if he topped the self same officer five minutes after he clocked off (unaware they were a police officer due to the plain clothes) its just life?

or a retired copper, or if a copper killed a copper?

what about if a traffic cop got killed by a member of MI6?

the thought that someone choosing a profession makes them a more worthwhile person abhors me.

what if a Vicar shot a copper for having an affair with his wife, who was QC?

it's batshit lunacy, again.

Re: Death penalty? : Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:15 am  

Standee wrote:

... the thought that someone choosing a profession makes them a more worthwhile person abhors me ...

Spot on.

Re: Death penalty? : Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:18 am  

Mintball wrote:

Spot on.

maybe we should let the Yorkshire Ripper out, he "only" murdered prostitutes afterall?

Re: Death penalty? : Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:21 am  

Standee wrote:

maybe we should let the Yorkshire Ripper out, he "only" murdered prostitutes afterall?

Not strictly true.

But thats probably why West Yorks Police didn't persue him too hard in the 1970s, until he started the 80s off with "decent" girls.

Re: Death penalty? : Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:43 am  

Dally wrote:

1. No.

For someone to be found guilty of murder, it has to be shown that they acted 'with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm'. I'd say that constituted being premeditated.

Dally wrote:

2. See 1 above.

See 1 above.

Dally wrote:

3. Drinking alcohol is not illegal, taking drugs is.

What difference does it make if the drug is illegal. Your reason for executing the addicts was 'persistent criminality', so why not execute 'persistently criminal' alcoholics, too? That's before we even examine the reasons a person might be addicted to Class A drugs. Heroin, to take one example, is addictive from the first use. There are any number of reasons a person might take that first hit, and after that, they're a slave to the drug. Are you really suggesting we should execute people for making one dumb choice that results in their addiction to heroin?

Dally wrote:

A mentally ill person is deemed not to murder.

But you never mentioned murder in your third point. You said 'persistent criminality as a result of Class A drug use'. If a person with mental illness behaves in a criminal manner, we (should) try to offer treatment for their illness and help to integrate back into society, not stick them in an electric chair. Surely the same consideration should be offered to drug addicts?

Re: Death penalty? : Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:49 am  

Standee wrote:

maybe we should let the Yorkshire Ripper out, he "only" murdered prostitutes afterall?

Jerry Chicken makes a good answer on this.

Re: Death penalty? : Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:04 am  

Standee wrote:

the thought that someone choosing a profession makes them a more worthwhile person abhors me.

While I get what you're saying about a profession, don't you do basically the samething on here day after day like your attitude to benefit claimants, basically saying you are a more worthwhile person by not having kids than a person who has kids and claims benefits for them or benefit claimants who are not as worthwhile as you because they claim from the state and you don't???????

Re: Death penalty? : Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:37 am  

As someone who is NOT advocating differential murder sentences, it is still fair to point out that there is an obvious difference between some deaths, which is that most people are not killed as a consequence of deliberately putting themselves in harm's way to protect you and me. Most of us would, I think, choose not to enter a money shop where a robbery is taking place, as did PC Sharon Beshenivsky; who would guarantee that they would not flee for safety, instead of rescuing injured comrades ignoring personal risk of death, like Private Beharry? Who would have the bottle to wade in to protect a pupil from a notorious gang with weapons, which they were using, as did headmaster Philip Lawrence? Who can guarantee that they would not jump the hell off a burning aeroplane, rather than stay on it to get as many passengers off as you could, as did Sharon Ford and Jacqui Urbanski when they lost their own lives in the Manchester Airport incident in 1985?

Someone who is prepared to risk their own life to help others has always been considered special, and in my book, is.

Re: Death penalty? : Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:39 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Someone who is prepared to risk their own life to help others has always been considered special, and in my book, is.

Well said FA.

Re: Death penalty? : Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:53 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Someone who is prepared to risk their own life to help others has always been considered special, and in my book, is.

Of course they're special, but they're no more special than, say, the scientist who maybe wouldn't run into a burning building, but who has found a breakthrough treatment for cancer. To me, both are equally special in different ways. The idea that one death is more tragic than another, or that some murders are worthy of a more serious punishment based solely on who was murdered, seems inherently flawed to me. I appreciate that wasn't your argument, but, just saying.