Re: Clegg and the economy : Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:17 pm  

Standee wrote:

Again, you selectively answer, but hey ho, I am used to it.

Look, to try to counter a fact about large population size by chucking in a random remark about a "problem" estate to bolster your intimation that a Sheffield station would be little used is, to put it kindly, facile.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:48 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Look, to try to counter a fact about large population size by chucking in a random remark about a "problem" estate to bolster your intimation that a Sheffield station would be little used is, to put it kindly, facile.

I ask agaain, are you from Sheffield.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:50 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

This is the public transport infrastructure equivalent of spending £10,000 souping up an old Ford Fiesta so it goes 5mph faster.

It's not needed, it's not wanted and it's entirely too expensive for the benefit it provides.

As for the supposed boost to the "regions" now all these Londoners will be able to commute up here to work so much more quickly, has the government not realised that what will happen is the exact opposite?

I hear d a caller on Radio 4 remark that she'd have more faith in the "boost to the regions", if the project started in the North and worked its way down to London

Andy Gilder wrote:

Londoners will continue to work in London, they'll just buy a house somewhere in the Peak District to commute from instead of a flat in Hammersmith. Property prices in the areas served by HS2 will go through the roof, forcing more an more people out of the property market.

Difficult to find a better example of why Land Value Taxation should be introduced. Just as is happening currently with Crossrail in London, there are business and individuals along the route who will receive a massive boost to the value of their property, simply through an accident of location. A boost that will have been paid for by every taxpayer in the UK. Now tell me that's fair.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:10 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

I hear d a caller on Radio 4 remark that she'd have more faith in the "boost to the regions", if the project started in the North and worked its way down to London

Difficult to find a better example of why Land Value Taxation should be introduced. Just as is happening currently with Crossrail in London, there are business and individuals along the route who will receive a massive boost to the value of their property, simply through an accident of location. A boost that will have been paid for by every taxpayer in the UK. Now tell me that's fair.

Can't disagree with either point cod'ead.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:26 pm  

A writer in tonight's London Evening Standard suggested that if the government really wanted to rebalance the economy away from finance and London then instead of HS2 they should create a high-speed triangular link between Manchester, its airport, Leeds and Sheffield. Also one linking B'ham, Nottin'm, Leicester, Wolverhpton and Stoke. A third Newcastle, Sunderland, M'borough, etc. Seems a better suggestion to me.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:50 pm  

The discussion of why Meadowhall instead of the city centre Sheffield station and now Dallys mention of Middlesboro Sunderland and Newcastle does bring to mind the issue not of where the track is laid but where the train will stop, for the only purpose to a high speed link between to or more points is to move people quickly between those points, the paradox being that the more times you stop the longer the journey takes yet the fewer stops you make the less convenient you make it for the passengers.

if for instance you are unfortunate enough to live in Sunderland at the moment and your job involves you in regular commutes to, say, Leeds then there is an excellent already quite high speed service from Newcastle to Leeds, city centre to city centre and far, far faster than a car (the last time one of my daughters took the route I'm sure it was timed aroudn 80 mins or so), but the route goes nowhere near Sunderland, its not that it just flies through the town, the mainline goes nowhere near it and yet its a major dormitory town in the region, your journey to get to Newcastle or Durham stations to catch the express will probably add the best part of another hour to your journey - hardly convenient when its then cheaper to jump in your car and head down the A19 to Leeds, a journey which will then be quicker.

For me the choice is simple, my company pays my train fare to Birmingham and for me to park my car in Leeds for the day, I can be in the city centre in twenty minutes at 6am, can park my car all day for £3.50 (ok I don't use that car park because I'm a lazy arze and the company is paying so I use the £7.50 closer car park), the journey to Brum takes exactly two hours, its a reasonable service even though the last time I shared my table with a genuine tramp who was bumming a ride for as long as he could stay undetected by the train manager (in america he'd sit in a box car playing a harmonica, in the UK he sits in a seat that cost my company nearly £70 and keeps moving coaches), it doesn't need improving on, just making a bit cheaper, a bit more capacity and fewer minor delays - then it would be perfect.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:55 pm  

Could get interesting How can they announce plans when subject to a review?

Could get interesting How can they announce plans when subject to a review?

Re: Clegg and the economy : Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:26 pm  

Standee wrote:

I ask agaain, are you from Sheffield.

No, I am not.
What difference does that make?

Re: Clegg and the economy : Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:31 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

No, I am not.
What difference does that make?

you have a an opinion not based on reality, but this isn't the only thread.

why not go to work, you could be helping out the economy.....?

Re: Clegg and the economy : Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:41 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

I hear d a caller on Radio 4 remark that she'd have more faith in the "boost to the regions", if the project started in the North and worked its way down to London...

Is the project going to start from London and work its way North?
Is that why it's going to be 20 years?

Blimey, Brunel built the GWR from scratch in only eight years, using men with picks and shovels ... how far we have come since those days eh?