Re: anti semitic or anti Zionist : Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:58 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

And he clarifies that people have misunderstood him.

I think the technical term for someone who wouldnt be sorry for unintentionally, deeply offending someone with a statement they neither meant, nor believed is 'a c@nt'.

I dont believe Gerald Scarfe to be 'a c@nt' but maybe he is, and maybe he doesnt care who he hurts, even with statements he doesnt believe in. Maybe I did assume he was a better person than he really is.

What nonsense.

He apologises for the timing of publication and clarifies the meaning of his cartoon. Not that he should have needed to do so, since it is quite obvious to anyone who isn't looking to be offended that Netanyahu (and not all Jews) was the target. That aside, having clarified his position, he had nothing to apologise for. Your desire for him to have done so - even thought his statement is quite clear - is a little baffling.

Re: anti semitic or anti Zionist : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:01 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

What nonsense.

He apologises for the timing of publication and clarifies the meaning of his cartoon. Not that he should have needed to do so, since it is quite obvious to anyone who isn't looking to be offended that Netanyahu (and not all Jews) was the target. That aside, having clarified his position, he had nothing to apologise for. Your desire for him to have done so - even thought his statement is quite clear - is a little baffling.

I dont need him to have done so I frankly care as little for him as i do you. As i said, i would assume anyone who unintentionally offends someone would apologise for it. I would think less of someone who wouldnt. Just as I would think less of someone thinking that only their interpretation was acceptable.

[Kosh]

Re: anti semitic or anti Zionist : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:02 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Indeed so ... I did say "Israeli voices", if you check back.

You did indeed. Not sure what happened there - I'm going to blame a senior moment and walk away whistling nonchalantly to myself.

Re: anti semitic or anti Zionist : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:02 pm  

"Whatever the intention, the danger of such images is that they reinforce a great slander of our time: that Jews, victims of the Holocaust, are now perpetrators of a similar crime against the Palestinians," he said in a statement.

"Not only is this manifestly untrue, it is also inflammatory and deeply dangerous."

Another example of people (Jewish people, in this instance) conflating Jews, the Israeli state and the Israeli people. It would certainly be crass to suggest that Jews or the Israeli people are perpetrators of a similar crime (to the holocaust) against the Palestinians, but the Israeli state are fair game for such an accusation.

Re: anti semitic or anti Zionist : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:04 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

I dont need him to have done so I frankly care as little for him as i do you. As i said, i would assume anyone who unintentionally offends someone would apologise for it. I would think less of someone who wouldnt. Just as I would think less of someone thinking that only their interpretation was acceptable.

Or a person who thinks that making stuff up and then trying to argue that it's true is acceptable, perhaps?

Re: anti semitic or anti Zionist : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:17 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

Another example of people (Jewish people, in this instance) conflating Jews, the Israeli state and the Israeli people. It would certainly be crass to suggest that Jews or the Israeli people are perpetrators of a similar crime (to the holocaust) against the Palestinians, but the Israeli state are fair game for such an accusation.

Except they arent. Whatever you think of the actions of the Israeli state what is happening isnt anything like the holocaust. These events simply arent analogous or parallel. There are many more relevant and analogous situations which what is happening is similar to.

The crimes arent similar at all, the gaza strip is nothing like Auchwitz and the west bank is nothing like Treblinka.

On a factual basis the two things arent similar at all. Even if you wanted to equate the horror of them, there are still more relevant parallels. They are actually, so distinctly different as situations that if Israel wasnt a Jewish state, no-one would equate it to the holocaust any more than they would equate it to the situation in North Korea or historically Sri Lanka, cambodia, east timor.

Re: anti semitic or anti Zionist : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:19 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

Or a person who thinks that making stuff up and then trying to argue that it's true is acceptable, perhaps?

I didnt argue it was true, i never denied it was based on my assumption that Mr Scarfe wasnt a horrible person.

it seems it is you who is no making things up.

Re: anti semitic or anti Zionist : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:21 pm  

It does appear that the real cause of the outrage is the timing of publication of the cartoon, rather than its content. Publication dates are hardly within the remit of caroonists, that would have to be made by and editor or proprietor.

Either way, it cartainly seems to have caused more outrage than Dave Brown's award winning cartoon of Ariel Sharon

Re: anti semitic or anti Zionist : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:35 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

It is ridiculous to see people defending something even the artist admits was wrong.

He admitted no such thing. You made that bit up.

Re: anti semitic or anti Zionist : Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:38 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Except they arent. Whatever you think of the actions of the Israeli state what is happening isnt anything like the holocaust. These events simply arent analogous or parallel. There are many more relevant and analogous situations which what is happening is similar to.

The crimes arent similar at all, the gaza strip is nothing like Auchwitz and the west bank is nothing like Treblinka.

On a factual basis the two things arent similar at all. Even if you wanted to equate the horror of them, there are still more relevant parallels. They are actually, so distinctly different as situations that if Israel wasnt a Jewish state, no-one would equate it to the holocaust any more than they would equate it to the situation in North Korea or historically Sri Lanka, cambodia, east timor.

They are systematically oppressing and killing Palestinians. They flout international law to do so. The scale isn't the same as the holocaust, but the end aims are similar, and the means of achieving them little better.