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Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 9:36 am  
I'd ask Jerry and Cod'ead what they own, but I fear I know the answer.
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Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 9:57 am  
Standee wrote:
I'd ask Jerry and Cod'ead what they own, but I fear I know the answer.


What the hell has that got to do with anything?

You don't have children but that doesn't stop you pontificating on those who do
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Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 10:21 am  
Lord Elpers wrote:
No worse than the "more borrowing is good" trap you are falling into.
That's like ignoring the gross mistakes that got us into this mess in the first place.

You too are falling into the trap of thinking that because it was heat that got him into that mess, the burns patient should be allowed to freeze to death.

Borrowing is not the total evil that Osborne would like us to think.
Without borrowing, infrastructure, for example, simply wouldn't exist.

Brown and Darling's borrowings were well within tolerable limits until the financial crash.
Indeed, both debt and deficit were better than they had inherited from Osbornes' party ... but, as we are supposed to think, Conservatives borrowing is absolutely fine but Labour's smaller borrowing is all totally bad.

You mention gross mistakes... the gross mistakes that got us into this mess were largely those of banks and financial institutions gambling with other people's money and trading in worse-than-worthless derivatives.

The affordability of debt is usually measured as a percentage of GDP.
Osborne has overseen (not overlooked, he's quite sanguine about it) a decrease in GDP ... and an increase in debt-to-GDP ... which means that debt-to-GDP has gone from 52% to 93%.

Put simply, even balanced against the low gilt yields he has to pay, he has made the affordability of the UK debt an awful lot less affordable than it was in 2008.
There now only a fruitcake rump of economists who support his policies, even many who wrote to the papers in support of his plan in the early days have now either U-turned or say it should be slowed.

Osborne warned that the UK was in danger of losing its triple A rating, which would be "disastrous" and his measures would prevent that from happening.
Three years on, the UK has lost those triple A ratings and the IMF (yes, even the IMF !!) is saying ease off the austerity please George.

No wonder he was sniffling at Thatcher's funeral, he is Thatcherite through and through, and is continuing her political ambition of the destruction of the welfare state and marketisation of everything.
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Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 10:42 am  
Standee wrote:
I'd ask Jerry and Cod'ead what they own, but I fear I know the answer.



I have a house with a mortgage on it that both I and the Nationwide are both happy to support, if house prices devalued by 10 or even 20% overnight then both I and the Nationwide would still be happy with our equity and as a side issue my daughter who is trying to buy her first house would also be happy although I suspect that the short sighted lenders would be completely paranoid about lending at that point.

The value of my house is totally irrelevant to me, the date at which my mortgage is paid off is totally irrelevant to me, at some point in the future it will be paid off and at some point in the future I will cark it and my daughters will inherit what I have left in equity, in the meantime I live here and enjoy its use.

There is really nothing more to it than that.
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Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 11:16 am  
Standee wrote:
What would happen to all the people losing money, being made homeless?


The loss by and large would be on paper, the value of your investment yada yada yada...

How would house prices dropping make people homeless?
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Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 12:08 pm  
those who own least, stand to lose least.

Sin Bin and politics of envy, an unbreakable union.
Last edited by Standee on Fri May 03, 2013 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 12:10 pm  
Standee wrote:
those who wn least, stand to lose least.

Sin Bin and politics of envy, an unbreakable union.


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Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 12:24 pm  
"those who own least, stand to lose least"

the reason given by the powers in this land to prevent every attempt to give the vote to the working class
the reason given by the rich to any fair taxation

the mutterings of a dinosaur
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Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 12:31 pm  
Standee wrote:
those who own least, stand to lose least.

Sin Bin and politics of envy, an unbreakable union.


You could also suggest that those who own most, can afford to lose most.

I think one of the main things is the fact that people who can afford/require an accountant to do tax returns will end up paying little in tax due to the exploitation of loopholes, created by accountants subcontracted to the government, which creates even greater class divides than the 50-45p tax cut.
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Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 12:40 pm  
Standee wrote:
those who own least, stand to lose least.

Sin Bin and politics of envy, an unbreakable union.



Who would "lose" anything if an overnight property devaluation were allowed to take place ?

The valuation of your own wealth inside your head is simply guesswork and presumption and ultimately is worthless if you can't find a buyer for your assets - the house at the end of our street is probably "worth" the £350k that the seller is asking, inside his head anyway, in truth its been up for sale since we moved here in 2007, in truth its worth £0 at the moment.
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