Re: Wonga and moral hazard? : Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:42 am  

Cronus wrote:

What's your opinion on cig breaks? Way back in my office days it would drive me potty watching smokers saunter outside for a smoke once an hour for 10-15 minutes while the rest of us carried on slaving, and then take a full lunch hour.

I had a Summer job while at uni where the smokers used to come round and ask you to cover for them for five minutes while they went outside for a cig. I used to agree so long as they covered me for five minutes while I went to toss it off outside too.

Most recently I worked with a lad who went for a 10 minute cig break every hour without fail. Over the course of an eight hour day that's 80 minutes he's basically done bugger all work compared to the rest of us. No wonder production is down these days.

Re: Wonga and moral hazard? : Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:17 pm  

Cronus wrote:

What's your opinion on cig breaks? Way back in my office days it would drive me potty watching smokers saunter outside for a smoke once an hour for 10-15 minutes while the rest of us carried on slaving, and then take a full lunch hour.

One girl started taking 'fresh air' breaks and was threatened was disciplinary.

Workshy and stunk of cig smoke.

We've got that covered

One of the products that we sell allocates a preset amount of minutes and/or number of breaks to be used for whatever purpose the employee desires, toilet breaks, fresh air breaks, cig breaks etc. If they register longer than their total allowance, or longer than the prescribed amount for each individual break, or exceed their number of breaks per day then they can be penalised, biometrics ensure that its the actual person taking the break - its worth noting that this is always classed as paid break time rather than unpaid compared to lunch breaks which are often unpaid, a strangely evolved situation.

Going back thirty years or more (as my working life memory allows) this sort of thing was unheard of as anyone was allowed to smoke in the workplace, at their work station, I've seen people with a cig in their mouth working on cloth cutting tables for instance where you might expect ash and embers to be banned (if only to save the product) and the only place that I ever recall which completely banned smoking and the carrying of matches on the person was a factory in Huddersfield which made the cardboard tubes for Standard Fireworks, for obvious reasons.

Re: Wonga and moral hazard? : Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:36 am  

Cronus wrote:

What's your opinion on cig breaks? Way back in my office days it would drive me potty watching smokers saunter outside for a smoke once an hour for 10-15 minutes while the rest of us carried on slaving, and then take a full lunch hour.

One girl started taking 'fresh air' breaks and was threatened was disciplinary.

Workshy and stunk of cig smoke.

What cig breaks Not if I had anything to do with it. You have your break when you're supposed to have it because there is a reason to have it then and not before/after or longer! if one elects to have a cigarette during that time that's a choice but extra breaks, no fecking way pedro... People are so selfish, hearing the usual "well i've finished my workload/task or "I'm ahead of myself" b0llox, yeah right. 95% of the time is because you haven't done it right/to the std or you've just not done it at all and the best one is when there's clearly a colleage having a bad day of it and you've opted out of the 'working in a team' bull$hite you probably spouted at interview..as per usual grrrr.

Even then if you can't change into your civvies before-hand and back again into your uniform/protective clothing/PPE in time then tough, no ciggies for you me old mucker. It isn't my fault the fag shelter is X minutes walk away though one place I went to close a contract down had a cigarette room inside the building FFS!!

Personally people stinking of smoke in a workplace environment IS anti social, it's unpleasant at best and for some people it makes them gag at the smell of it. I would address it the same as I would address someone with bad body odour but less subtly and if company policy had allowed it i would find a way to hand out warnings.

Amongst many other things I was a bit of a sorter-outer for my company. Got a bit of a rep I guess because I wouldn't stand for people being at work and treating it like a permanent Butlin's holiday one of my nicknames was Mr P45 . usually because middle/senior management were bottlers and HR was effectively a non entity with regard to discipline. When covering site managers it'd annoy the hell out of me seeing how slack/slapdash the operation was and could understand why things were so pants in every way possible and one of the main reasons why a contract may well not be retained. Often I'd walk down to the local job centre after the 2nd day and ask them to weedle out some people for me to interview over the phone for X position/s because I'd be certain to be one or two short by the time the manager came back off his/her holiday not to mention changes I'd made in their absence.
Lots of phone calls and a few words exchanged but frankly i couldn't give a flying feck because clearly you weren't doing your job properly and it took me all of 2 weeks to sort it for you, you lazy bstd.

Sadly I saw lots of the self same thing going on around me from some very big companies that we provided our services to. it's endemic and I think progressively getting worse. I've worked with some amazing people over the years, sadly they are outnumbered and often treated like outcasts for being dedicated and good at what they do

Re: Wonga and moral hazard? : Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:20 pm  

From my experience both from working at the bottom end in minimum wage jobs to leading an albeit relatively small team id say it's a balance between ensuring people work efficiently/aren't tossing it off and helping them enjoy their work as much as is possible.

When I was younger and working minimum wage jobs I know I worked harder at the jobs where I wasn't treated like a piece of sh|t. If I was I didn't particularly care that much as to the quality of my work. It was just a matter of get through the day without getting sacked. Whereas the other jobs, despite not being paid anymore, because I was treated better or the conditions of work were better I felt more valued and felt more responsible for my own work. So consequently worked harder and better.
I've also found the same when leading a team. Treat them like human beings and you'll generally get far more out of them. You'll also keep them for much longer so aren't constantly having to recruit and train staff. If you treat people like robots then they won't care about what they're doing. Treat them well and you'll get mostly good workers regardless of whether it's minimum wage.

Having said all that, you can't let people take the mick. It's not fair for the business and also, crucially, doesn't half antagonise your "loyal" staff who work hard and then see someone else slacking off.

Re: Wonga and moral hazard? : Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:47 pm  

Exactly, it's the same no matter what level you are at. i'd bust my balls when I stepped up the ladder to make things better/easier/more efficient(more so than when I was a foot soldier) but some people hate change. Including staff in the process helps and subtly co-ercing them toward what ultimately you want them to do but allowing them the good feeling of being part of the process of changing for the better makes it so much easier.
Id always offer to give help/training to those that wanted or indeed I thought needed it. you use your own personal experience to guide your charges and sometimes even those above you.
ATEOTD some people are just lazy bone idle useless feckers and no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try there's always some whom want to upset the apple cart. whilst there are times you can cajole, encourage, put up with and even just ignore them often you just have to go through due process and turf them out because they absolutely will not change their attitude/habits/performance level no matter what you try.
I hate those scenarios because it is so bloody time consuming and staff are often upset/put out even more because said individual is being even more of a c0ck than usual.
Being a wallah is oh so much simpler..lol