[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:15 am  

I reckon some wets in the Tories will back her just to try and stay in office, they know they're in a pickle. I don't see any of the Brexiters actually wanting to be in charge yet, many would rather wait until after the end of March so someone else can be blame for the mess.

I reckon she'll survive a vote of no confidence but her deal will get thrown out by parliament. What she does then is anyone's guess.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:40 pm  

She appears to be appealing to the whole house in order to get the numbers.

There'll be quite a few Labour M.P.'s wavering when it gets to the vote, should they toe the party line, or should they follow their constituents wishes, even if it's not exactly the Brexit they hoped for?

I felt a little sorry for her yesterday, not something I've felt for a Tory before, but to be fair she kept a straight bat amidst hours of bouncers, but I guess that's what politicians do best. If I could ask her one question & get a honest response it would be, what happens if you lose the vote?

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:27 pm  

I think the problem is that when negotiating the divorce you don’t want a very clear and firm position because it limits your room for manoeuvre. But that allows people to interpret ‘what was voted for’ in their own way, and what she came back was never going to match all or even many of those expectations. She’s gone beyond a joke now to almost being weirdly impressive - like that knight in the Monty Python film who wouldn’t give up despite losing all his limbs.

Interesting to see the Daily Mail’s new editorial line on the ‘preening Tory saboteurs’. I think they’re so defined by opposition that they’d be lost if they got what they wanted. Be funny to see to see their faces, if nothing else - although obviously we wouldn’t, they’d be off quick smart to pursue their other interests, like humming Dave before them.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:31 pm  

May has the look of someone who is demob happy; she knows she's on her way out, so all the issues that would have beset her, are suddenly less significant and bothersome.

The deal will obviously be rejected by the HoP - and if she hasn't been ousted by then, she'll resign; then one of the Brexit cheerleaders will have to step up and try to salvage something - which will be a poison chalice of the worst kind.

The only light at the end of this tunnel, is that we could be witnessing the demise of the Tories as a political force for a generation.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:25 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

I think the problem is that when negotiating the divorce you don’t want a very clear and firm position because it limits your room for manoeuvre. But that allows people to interpret ‘what was voted for’ in their own way, and what she came back was never going to match all or even many of those expectations. She’s gone beyond a joke now to almost being weirdly impressive - like that knight in the Monty Python film who wouldn’t give up despite losing all his limbs.

Interesting to see the Daily Mail’s new editorial line on the ‘preening Tory saboteurs’. I think they’re so defined by opposition that they’d be lost if they got what they wanted. Be funny to see to see their faces, if nothing else - although obviously we wouldn’t, they’d be off quick smart to pursue their other interests, like humming Dave before them.

I disagree with this.

May's biggest mistake was putting herself before any meaningful deal.
She needed to "pick a side" from the outset, even if this meant unrest within her party and possibly her own demise.

In trying to keep "everyone" on side for as long as possible, we look like ending up with either the worst of all deals or no deal.

Ultimately, with the Brexit issue being so toxic and not really along part lines, just as soon as she went for her "strong and stable" election and failed to obtain a significant majority, she was screwed.

As for Labour, the cowardly b'strds, they have just sat on the fence hoping for a Tory implosion, which in fairness, does look quuite likely but, they are equally split on this issue and the whole mess looks likely to continue for some while.

If we have a "peoples vote", the majority could be slightly in favour of remain but, what then ?
On the basis that the vote would still be close (even if it was a "remain" result), do we then go for best of three, best of 5, draw lots ???

Also, if we have "no deal", what happens to the Irish border, I presume that it would need to be a "hard" border. Quite ironic really and this could just about save Mrs May but, I doubt it.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:20 pm  

The real choice was Brexit (as voted for) or Remain. The establishment, BBC, etc have consistently used the vexatious term "hard Brexit" from early on, to introduce the constant idea in voters minds that Brexit is bad and wholly unacceptable.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:15 am  

Dally wrote:

The real choice was Brexit (as voted for) or Remain. The establishment, BBC, etc have consistently used the vexatious term "hard Brexit" from early on, to introduce the constant idea in voters minds that Brexit is bad and wholly unacceptable.

Well it is bad and the consequences will be poor, so I'd say the BBC have got it just about right.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:16 am  

Dally wrote:

Brexit (as voted for)

Apart from racism & xenophobia the vast majority didn't have a clue what they were voting for.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:06 am  

Also to take back control of our money (which we already had,) our borders (which we already had,) and our laws (which we already had.)

It's been a vacuous, self-serving exercise in appeasing racists, xenophobes and little england fantasists, who have convinced themselves that its possible to return to some halcyon era that never actually existed in the first place.

Utter madness that will end up delivering none of the things that were promised.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:07 am  

The cretinous Davis, fashionably quoting the Spice Girls says we should "provide the 'human touch' by focusing on issues like housing, education, health and crime that matter so much in the lives of families up and down our country". Well cretin, your party has destroyed all those without the interference of Europe, & will continue to do so whether we are in or out.