[Mild Rover]

Re: Wealth re-distribution : Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:17 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Big companies are far too clever - it needs a change internationally and there are countries with a vested interest in not letting that happen - some are even in the seas just of the UK mainland.

They’re not clever - it is just easy.

Do you have any suggestions?

Because it increasingly feels like your original question was:

How do we make our optimal economic system work better without changing it?

Re: Wealth re-distribution : Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:26 am  

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:

These numbers are not my personal opinion on what poverty is they are official government statistics. Although without a permanent roof over your head is homeless, struggling to feed your family (hence using a food bank) and pay essential bills is living in poverty. I’m not sure what your point is, are you saying the 14M officially living in poverty are actually well off.

The increase in homelessness has nothing to do with immigration. We had immigration before the tories came to power in 2010 and we still have immigration now at similar levels.

Immigrants are scapegoated by our right wing press, which is owned by billionaire non domicile tax dodgers, despite the fact immigrants are less likely to be unemployed than British born people, less likely to claim benefits and contribute more than they take out of the system.

In any society there will those who earn less, have less etc. even in your Socialist utopia there are the haves and have nots. As I have pointed out the officials of Unite - the leftist of unions - have a final salary pension scheme paid for by the members - go figure?

We don't have 14m living in poverty as you well know yes they may earn less but they are entitled to benefits to top up their earnings the numbers using food banks is >2m that says c12m of you 14m can afford to buy food - is that true poverty? How many people in this country are really in poverty?

The Times has suggested 20% of all homeless in London are EU migrants - I suppose that is just Murdoch looking after himself?

Re: Wealth re-distribution : Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:14 am  

There will always be people who earn less and have less than others, but we can choose to make things better and more equal rather than worse and less equal. We do have 14M living in poverty, that is a fact. Some of those people can feed themselves without using a food bank, but they are still living in poverty. It’s pointless debating how poor they are, everybody’s situation will be different, but the fact is they are officially living in poverty, and the number of people living in poverty has risen significantly. The only conclusion anyone can draw from that is the government has failed the people it’s supposed to represent on a massive scale. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... k-42218682

There will always be people who earn less and have less than others, but we can choose to make things better and more equal rather than worse and less equal. We do have 14M living in poverty, that is a fact. Some of those people can feed themselves without using a food bank, but they are still living in poverty. It’s pointless debating how poor they are, everybody’s situation will be different, but the fact is they are officially living in poverty, and the number of people living in poverty has risen significantly. The only conclusion anyone can draw from that is the government has failed the people it’s supposed to represent on a massive scale. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... k-42218682

[Mild Rover]

Re: Wealth re-distribution : Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:15 am  

Sal Paradise wrote: We don't have 14m living in poverty as you well know yes they may earn less but they are entitled to benefits to top up their earnings the numbers using food banks is >2m that says c12m of you 14m can afford to buy food - is that true poverty? How many people in this country are really in poverty? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42223497 If those definitions don’t work for you, how would you define poverty? Sal Paradise wrote: I am concerned about the inequality of wealth in this country. Surely something needs to be done to provide a fairer society in terms of wealth distribution. Do you stand by that? How would you define fairness, in this context? What level of equality would you like to see? What proportion of wealth being held by the the top 1% or 5%, nationally or globally, would you deem equitable? What would you regard as being the maximum acceptable Gini co-efficient in the UK?

Sal Paradise wrote: We don't have 14m living in poverty as you well know yes they may earn less but they are entitled to benefits to top up their earnings the numbers using food banks is >2m that says c12m of you 14m can afford to buy food - is that true poverty? How many people in this country are really in poverty? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42223497 If those definitions don’t work for you, how would you define poverty? Sal Paradise wrote: I am concerned about the inequality of wealth in this country. Surely something needs to be done to provide a fairer society in terms of wealth distribution. Do you stand by that? How would you define fairness, in this context? What level of equality would you like to see? What proportion of wealth being held by the the top 1% or 5%, nationally or globally, would you deem equitable? What would you regard as being the maximum acceptable Gini co-efficient in the UK?

Re: Wealth re-distribution : Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:47 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

They’re not clever - it is just easy.

Do you have any suggestions?

Because it increasingly feels like your original question was:

How do we make our optimal economic system work better without changing it?

The taxation system is very complex and requires highly intelligent people to understand it - we need to close down the rules on transfer pricing and as mentioned before management/franchising charges. Corporation tax needs to be an international cooperation or there will always be legal ways of avoidance.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Wealth re-distribution : Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:09 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The taxation system is very complex and requires highly intelligent people to understand it - we need to close down the rules on transfer pricing and as mentioned before management/franchising charges. Corporation tax needs to be an international cooperation or there will always be legal ways of avoidance.

So would you be in favour of international economic harmonisation, with the pooling of sovereignty needed to achieve that?

Re: Wealth re-distribution : Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:56 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

So would you be in favour of international economic harmonisation, with the pooling of sovereignty needed to achieve that?

For taxation you need international agreement or the current loopholes will still exist i.e. Apple being based in Ireland, Amazon in Luxembourg etc. whilst ever you have countries with very low rates of CT large companies will migrate their - altruism is not high up on their priority list.

Re: Wealth re-distribution : Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:20 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The taxation system is very complex and requires highly intelligent people to understand it -

What a pity they can't put their collective genius to building a better world.

Re: Wealth re-distribution : Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:05 pm  

tigertot wrote:

What a pity they can't put their collective genius to building a better world.

As I mentioned before the human condition is not naturally altruistic - its no surprise that we think about others once we are in comfortable position.

If its feed your family or they go hungry so others can eat then I doubt you would be quite so considerate of others?

Re: Wealth re-distribution : Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:25 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The taxation system is very complex and requires highly intelligent people to understand it - we need to close down the rules on transfer pricing and as mentioned before management/franchising charges. Corporation tax needs to be an international cooperation or there will always be legal ways of avoidance.

Your right about the complexities within tax law and the biggest problem is that the larger comglomerates have brighter people helping them avoid paying tax than HMRC have "collecting" it.

The villians are always one (or two) steps ahead.

If the whole thing was simplified, then the exchequer would benefit.
Unfortunately, the fundamental flw here is that those making our laws (MP's) would be hit in their own pocket so, we have the ultimate contradiction of MP saying that "everyone should pay their share", whilst at the same time, avoiding paying tax in any way possible.
How many MP's have offshore accounts for their personal or private affairs ??