Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Thu May 22, 2014 3:52 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

No one denies it's a possibility, simply very very very very unlikely, because the vast vast vast majority of those on that list inherited their wealth through royalty, or nepotism from dictators or industrial wealth built before the current right wing economic theory made it so much more difficult.

I can spot 30 out of the 100 right away that didn't inherit, hardly a vast vast vast majority as you say.

[DaveO]

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Fri May 23, 2014 10:28 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

....are you prepared to sleep in a squat above the shop that you were supposed to have been evicted from like Richard Branson had to,.....

Hang on, Branson is not someone who raised himself up from rags to riches as the above implies. He had the backing of a very wealthy family from a very early age.

His father was barrister, his grandfather a high court judge and privvy councillor and when Richard Branson wanted to start a business breeding budgies his Dad built him a huge aviary and when he opened his first record shop who do you think bankrolled that?

It's very easy to take risks and get back on the horse if your attempts at business fail if in reality there aren't any risks because you have a wealthy family to fall back on as Branson did.

Hard work, and a huge smattering of luck and you may make a living at it, throw in some incredible luck and......

......a wealthy family.....

.....and you may make the Sunday Times list.

Without his families money I doubt we would have heard of Richard Branson.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat May 24, 2014 7:16 am  

DaveO wrote:

Hang on, Branson is not someone who raised himself up from rags to riches as the above implies. He had the backing of a very wealthy family from a very early age.

His father was barrister, his grandfather a high court judge and privvy councillor and when Richard Branson wanted to start a business breeding budgies his Dad built him a huge aviary and when he opened his first record shop who do you think bankrolled that?

It's very easy to take risks and get back on the horse if your attempts at business fail if in reality there aren't any risks because you have a wealthy family to fall back on as Branson did.

......a wealthy family..... Without his families money I doubt we would have heard of Richard Branson.

Well indeed, I've read his biog too although he does like to give the impression that his first record shop venture in London was a seat-of-the-pants affair with some uni mates and a total lack of planning & organisation - and to be fair to him when the shoite eventually hit the fan he didn't get any family bail out money, he went bust.

Its not always the case either that "family money" is always available to assist your sprogs gently off on their path of entrepreneurship, I would be considered wealthy by those who have fewer assets than mine but I have not one single shiny penny to invest in my childrens future, they have stood on their own two feet since they were old enough to work and are far better people for the effort of doing so - same goes for many who have "family money" tied up in assets, its not always available for them to spend as they wish and often there is great family opposition to the sort of risk taking with their money that the likes of a breeding budgie business would involve, it not always a case of "Excuse me pater, could I trouble you for the odd half mill to get this little venture with my chums off the ground?"

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Tue May 27, 2014 2:59 pm  

Big Graeme wrote:

I can spot 30 out of the 100 right away that didn't inherit, hardly a vast vast vast majority as you say.

Which thirty?

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:09 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Worth saying again but any business person who thinks they are some sort of genius because they have aquired some wealth and have a successful business is only kidding themselves and I include all of the panel of Dragons Den and Alan Sugar in that statement (although they would probably admit as much themselves if only in private).

There is no secret at all to forming a business with very little capital and after that its just your own hard work and 95% luck - you will probably be in the vast majority of start up businesses who fail after 12 months and then its down to you and your own personal situation, can you busk it for six months while starting again, are you prepared to sleep in a squat above the shop that you were supposed to have been evicted from like Richard Branson had to, or do you have a family and a mortgage that needs you to scrap the dream and go work for someone else with immediate effect.

Even if you "make it" most businesses trade on loans, good will and pure good luck, hit a patch of bad luck and most will fail, watch your turnover drop over six months and expect your bank manager to start pestering you, no-one wants to know a business owner when they've made a bad decision or hit a run of bad luck and there is no "angel" who will knock on your door to save you like some of the TV programmes will have you believe.

Hard work, and a huge smattering of luck and you may make a living at it, throw in some incredible luck and you may make the Sunday Times list.

I am sure that any business plan that was to be based on 5% hard work and 95% luck would be bound to fail.

Luck plays a part in all aspects of life and not just in business, but to suggest that in business it is 95% luck is ludicrous. Many business ventures fail because the idea or product is wrong or the key personnel are wrong. A key ingredient for most business is marketing and sales ability. Skills which sadly in many people is so lacking. To put any of these examples down to luck is to not to face reality.

Having the right idea or product and knowing how to bring it to market at the right time are crucial to a budding entrepreneur. Add in tenacity and focus and being able to do the key work yourself and sufficient funding to stay alive to allow the business to grow.

Yes the odds are against success because it is so hard to achieve but it can be done without having to rely on luck.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:28 pm  

Lord Elpers wrote:

I am sure that any business plan that was to be based on 5% hard work and 95% luck would be bound to fail.

Luck plays a part in all aspects of life and not just in business, but to suggest that in business it is 95% luck is ludicrous. Many business ventures fail because the idea or product is wrong or the key personnel are wrong. A key ingredient for most business is marketing and sales ability. Skills which sadly in many people is so lacking. To put any of these examples down to luck is to not to face reality.

Having the right idea or product and knowing how to bring it to market at the right time are crucial to a budding entrepreneur. Add in tenacity and focus and being able to do the key work yourself and sufficient funding to stay alive to allow the business to grow.

Yes the odds are against success because it is so hard to achieve but it can be done without having to rely on luck.

Having run my own businesses since 1984 I can assure you that any company who has a long history and an honest proprietor will be able to point at past accounts and show you exactly where they hit the bad luck and where the good luck kicked in, if they aren't so honest or have an ego to feed on TV they'll try and take the credit for their own inbuilt genius.

I've done business with many wealthy company owners over the years but none prove my point more than the hotel owner who invited me to his hotel, spa and golf course development in Barbados five years running, the land alone with its beachfront was worth millions.Then 9/11 happened an Americans stopped flying for 18 months (or more), I'd call that bad luck and the last time I saw him back in the UK so did he -I checked his property on google earth last week, its a flat concrete base where a hotel used to be now.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:18 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Having run my own businesses since 1984 I can assure you that any company who has a long history and an honest proprietor will be able to point at past accounts and show you exactly where they hit the bad luck and where the good luck kicked in, if they aren't so honest or have an ego to feed on TV they'll try and take the credit for their own inbuilt genius.

I've done business with many wealthy company owners over the years but none prove my point more than the hotel owner who invited me to his hotel, spa and golf course development in Barbados five years running, the land alone with its beachfront was worth millions.Then 9/11 happened an Americans stopped flying for 18 months (or more), I'd call that bad luck and the last time I saw him back in the UK so did he -I checked his property on google earth last week, its a flat concrete base where a hotel used to be now.

I have run my own companies since 1979 and still have two now in supposed semi-retirement. I have agreed that luck can play a part in all of life with business no exception. But you claimed business was about 5% hard work and 95% luck which is arrant nonsense.

Quoting one instance of bad luck proves nothing. In my own businesses I have experienced both success and failure but when hit by bad luck the true entrepreneur just starts over again. If it was a one off 9/11 type experience then he cannot fault himself. If he had made errors he knows what not to repeat.

I would estimate the luck element in business at no higher than 20%-30% the rest is down to sound business principles and hard work, or the eureka moment of true invention. It is often said that the harder you work the luckier you get

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:09 am  

Lord Elpers wrote:

I have run my own companies since 1979 and still have two now in supposed semi-retirement. I have agreed that luck can play a part in all of life with business no exception. But you claimed business was about 5% hard work and 95% luck which is arrant nonsense.

Quoting one instance of bad luck proves nothing. In my own businesses I have experienced both success and failure but when hit by bad luck the true entrepreneur just starts over again. If it was a one off 9/11 type experience then he cannot fault himself. If he had made errors he knows what not to repeat.

I would estimate the luck element in business at no higher than 20%-30% the rest is down to sound business principles and hard work, or the eureka moment of true invention. It is often said that the harder you work the luckier you get

Plucking a percentage like this out of thin air is as much errant nonsense as that of which you criticise JC's guestimation of.
Unless of course, one of these businesses you are still involved in produces some kind of luck percentage barometer that I haven't yet come across in my Littlewoods catalogue?

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:02 pm  

Austerity is working? Not in Wales it seems http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-27761165

Austerity is working? Not in Wales it seems http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-27761165

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Wed May 13, 2015 3:30 pm  

Well the people have had their say and given a vote of confidence in David Cameron and George Osborne with a clear mandate to deliver more of the same. The Labour party is a shambles and the Lib Dems are all but decimated and both are headless with the voters showing the door to a long list of well known former MPs.

The PM has improved his authority and I hope this leads to his success in winning the much needed reforms in the EU. Who knows - if Greece becomes officially bankrupt this could lead to a new Charter at which there would be a chance make important changes.

Back home our parliamentary system relies on a strong opposition, so it is to be hoped that Labour learn from their mistakes and move back to be a just left of Centre party with a new generation of leaders.