Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:09 am  

bren2k wrote:

And right on cue, Gina Miller, who led the legal challenge to obtain Parliamentary consent, is now receiving death threats. Delightful.

The one thing that has been achieved with the Brexit vote and it's undeniable, politics has actually gone downhill.
Before, during and after the vote, we have witnessed lies, deceit and hate at a whole new (and disturbing) level.

The ruling yesterday is only a technicality and will cause delay to the departure from the EU and may even force another general election.
However, although I was a "remain", not implementing the result of the referendum would be utterly wrong, although I feel that many, many people have begun to realise that extracting ourselves from the EU, is far more complicated than anyone could have imagined.

For any legal minds out there, is it possible that while we are still within the EU, the next appeal could be taken to to the European Court

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:30 am  

Now that would be ironic. Now if the Euro court upheld the decision the reaction in the press will be priceless. Currently we have the press that sometimes thinks itself above the law admonishing the letter of the law. Can't see the Government going that far as would only add more delay, more cost and probably quite embarassing.

Would be surprised if the Supreme Court do not uphold the judgement already given. Then we get a more balanced and sensible consideration of what our exit actual is and how it is implemented. While there is the technical ability to hamper any decision, maybe a few delays but ultimately it being introduced. Longer term a clearer more engaged Parliament in the decision on our exit will help to reduce the divisions that there currently are in the country.

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:20 am  

The frothing at the mouth displayed by the tabloids today has hit new levels. Even if Article 50 has to be voted for by parliament there's little to no chance of it not going through. Most MPs have already accepted the referendum decision. I'd say the likes of Murdoch, Desmond and Rothermere are more concerned that they may not get the hard Brexit they want for some reason.

The emotive language used is way OTT. To say it's the gravest crisis since 1940 is ridiculous.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:27 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

The frothing at the mouth displayed by the tabloids today has hit new levels. Even if Article 50 has to be voted for by parliament there's little to no chance of it not going through. Most MPs have already accepted the referendum decision. I'd say the likes of Murdoch, Desmond and Rothermere are more concerned that they may not get the hard Brexit they want for some reason.

The emotive language used is way OTT. To say it's the gravest crisis since 1940 is ridiculous.

The UK press make our politicians look honourable.
They used to call the Tabloids the "gutter press" but we should look at the owners of these publications not just the news print.
Everyone likes to read a decent story but, these days the content is heavily manipulated to create an angle, making it more and more difficult to discern the truth.

As you say, there would be a revolt if Parliament doesn't carry out the wishes of the people but, with the possibility of a snap election, this could drag on and on and regardless of which side of the fence you are on, the Country and the people within it, need stability, which is the one thing badly missing at present.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:48 pm  

All the Remoaners feigned worry about the fate of the economy in the event of Brexit. Now they cheer a court case which will damage the economy due to prolonging the Brexit process and extending the period of uncertainty. This at a time when even chief Remoaner Carney suggests the economy was set to grow at twice the expected rate next year. Unless this is knocked on the head quickly we will have years of economic turmoil and the real possibility of serious civil unrest. The Remoaners are doing nobody a favour, least of all themselves.

As to different types of Brexit - it is all BS. The only Brexit we will have is the one we negotiate. All those calling for the govt to spell out what they are aiming for are dangerous idiots. If the government says "we are aiming for access to the single market without agreeing to regulations and free movement" does anybody seriously think 27 countries will give us that? On the other hand if we approach negotiations from a wholly different angle with that as the actual objective we could get it.

A Brexit with nothing changing in terms of free movement / acceptance of EU legislation / regulations would NOT be a Brexit at all. The starting point must be the willingness to accept "hard" Brexit - any other negotiating stance will get us nowhere.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:10 pm  

The Devil's Advocate wrote:

No nothing's changed, only the Tories are now heading for the Supreme Court to try & overturn a point of law.

No nothing's changed, yet if they lose next time, they will no longer be able to implement their own brand of Brexit. They will then have to listen to the whole house & the dreaded other place

No nothing's changed, yet TRESemme may have to call a snap General Election.

Remember the referendum result was purely advisory.

yep nothings changed, brexit still happening.

maybe a watered down brexit now though!

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:22 pm  

Dally wrote:

All the Remoaners feigned worry about the fate of the economy in the event of Brexit. Now they cheer a court case which will damage the economy due to prolonging the Brexit process and extending the period of uncertainty. This at a time when even chief Remoaner Carney suggests the economy was set to grow at twice the expected rate next year. Unless this is knocked on the head quickly we will have years of economic turmoil and the real possibility of serious civil unrest. The Remoaners are doing nobody a favour, least of all themselves.

As to different types of Brexit - it is all BS. The only Brexit we will have is the one we negotiate. All those calling for the govt to spell out what they are aiming for are dangerous idiots. If the government says "we are aiming for access to the single market without agreeing to regulations and free movement" does anybody seriously think 27 countries will give us that? On the other hand if we approach negotiations from a wholly different angle with that as the actual objective we could get it.

A Brexit with nothing changing in terms of free movement / acceptance of EU legislation / regulations would NOT be a Brexit at all. The starting point must be the willingness to accept "hard" Brexit - any other negotiating stance will get us nowhere.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:33 pm  

brearley84 wrote:

yep nothings changed, brexit still happening.

maybe a watered down brexit now though!

Not really, it just means that May and the morons she's unfortunately surrounded herself with as her inner circle, cannot sit in a room by themselves and make the whole thing up as they go along, which is basically what they've been doing.

This ruling doesn't mean Brexit isn't happening (as you said), just that the conversation will be had in parliament, the government can be held to account as they rightly should be, and ultimately the way in which Brexit is undertaken and negotiated will be decided democratically.

Those who voted leave who've been using the word 'democracy' when discussing the referendum result can't suddenly moan that Brexit will now be conducted in a democratic fashion. Total hypocrisy. You can't pick & choose when you want democracy and when you don't.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:34 pm  

DGM wrote:

Not really, it just means that May and the morons she's unfortunately surrounded herself with as her inner circle, cannot sit in a room by themselves and make the whole thing up as they go along, which is basically what they've been doing.

This ruling doesn't mean Brexit isn't happening (as you said), just that the conversation will be had in parliament, the government can be held to account as they rightly should be, and ultimately the way in which Brexit is undertaken and negotiated will be decided democratically.

Those who voted leave who've been using the word 'democracy' when discussing the referendum result can't suddenly moan that Brexit will now be conducted in a democratic fashion. Total hypocrisy. You can't pick & choose when you want democracy and when you don't.

: CLAP:

Unfortunately, Farage and Boris proclaiming "independence day" was a little premature.

We simply have to gain access to the EU "free market" but, as we would be wanting access, without the free movement of labour, one would expect that this access wont come cheap.
Also, all the banging on about EU regulations (pre referendum) and wanting rid of them will prove to be utter nonsense if we wish to sell any of our goods into the EU
It stands to reason that, anything sold into the EU will have to comply to EU regulations.

The more time that passes and you realise just how embeded the UK lifestyle and culture is with the EU and quite frankly both sides still need each other just as much now as they did prior to the result.

Of course, there is plenty of hot air on both side but, ultimately, we are likely to end up not too far away from where we started.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:57 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

As you say, there would be a revolt if Parliament doesn't carry out the wishes of the people.

First thing any A-level history student learns is never to use the term "the people" to describe an opinion. There's no such thing. "The people" have never been united on anything, and when politicians talk of the verdict of "the people", all they're doing is trying to silence opposition (or they were too thick to do A Level history!). 17m voted Leave. 16m voted Remain. 30m didn't vote because they either couldn't, or chose not to. There may be some out there who think "The British People" are just 17m strong, and the other 46m disappeared on 23rd June, but they're probably far-right newspaper demagogues.

Secondly, I've heard this guff about a revolt if Brexit isn't carried out several times. It's nonsense. And the reason it's nonsense is that there's a huge misrepresentation in the press leading to a popular myth arising that Brexit supporters were the "left-behinds": working-age, working-class people of the sort found on endless vox-pops on news programmes. Problem is, it's garbage. The majority of Brexit supporters were pensioners and Tories. They aren't going to express their outrage on the streets - after all, it's hard to take on a police horse with a zimmer frame. They get their far-right mouthpieces like the Express, Mail and Sun to do it for them. Most working people voted Remain, and the younger you were, the more likely you were to vote Remain. So if (and this won't happen, sadly, because our polticians are cowardly gets) Parliament now refused to invoke Article 50, thereby doing its job and saving the country from self-harm, I would personally volunteer to police any demo, if only for the opportunity of kicking the stick away from some clueless Tory pensioner who thinks it's still 1954.