Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:05 pm  

Dally wrote:

More hysteria. So Trump is likely to be anti-Semitic based on this "evidence"? Well family actions speak louder than words - Trump's daughter has converted to Judaism and his son-in-law is Jewish.

Did I say Trump was anti Semitic? Bannon made his fortune by investing in 'Seinfeld' (written by Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld). Doesn't mean he isn't anti-Semitic as his wife has explained - he didn't want his daughters going to school with Jews.

It is alarming that you don't consider the Breitbart site as evidence that Bannon is anti-semitic. Take a look. What more do you need?

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:41 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The Brexit and Trump campaign were quite similar in some respects.

Tapping into the fears of the "ordinary man in the street", blaming immigrants for "taking all our jobs" and playing on peoples fears.

Remain and anti-Trump campaigners just as guilty of trying to use fear with constant worst case scenarios being told as if they're already fact. Likely outcome will be that Trump won't be as good a president as his supporters hope but he also want be anywhere near as bad as the anti-Trump crowd insist he will. Both sides in both Brexit & America are guilty of using exaggerated worst case scenario tales to scare people into voting how they want.

wrencat1873 wrote:

Although there is little doubt that this type of campaign has won many votes, it's a dangerous path to tread and people should show compassion for their fellow man and not be finding groups of people to hate or to blame.

And again that can be flipped around. Yes they are people who voted because of racism but also many who didn't. Some states will always vote Republican, some always Democratic, it was the swing states that were crucial and those states were voted for a black president last 2 terms so we can't just steteotype voters and insult them with terms like racist and uneducated and then hypocritically blame them for messing up America.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:05 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Remain and anti-Trump campaigners just as guilty of trying to use fear with constant worst case scenarios being told as if they're already fact. Likely outcome will be that Trump won't be as good a president as his supporters hope but he also want be anywhere near as bad as the anti-Trump crowd insist he will. Both sides in both Brexit & America are guilty of using exaggerated worst case scenario tales to scare people into voting how they want.

And again that can be flipped around. Yes they are people who voted because of racism but also many who didn't. Some states will always vote Republican, some always Democratic, it was the swing states that were crucial and those states were voted for a black president last 2 terms so we can't just steteotype voters and insult them with terms like racist and uneducated and then hypocritically blame them for messing up America.

Sorry but, you appear to be making excuses for a President (elect) who is happy to be racist, homophobic and sexist during his election campaign.
I agree that, thank goodness, we wont see the full effect of these extremes, primarily because some of his "ideas" are not legal (even in the USA).

I dont think that you can stereotype voters and put them all into neat & tidy compartments, after all, everyone is different and as you say, just as in the UK, some people will vote for the same party, regardless of who stands in any given constituency. However, this does not excuse the style of campaigning or the deep held beliefs of the guy at the top of the pile.

It is right to question things when they appear to be wrong, so no apology from me for doing so and no matter how good or bad a president Trump turns out, Monday morning will still follow Sunday night.

Lets just hope that the groups of people targeted by, him during the campaign, improve their lives and that he doesn't just look after the White lower/middle classes and pour further misery on some of the other people in the States.

As I mentioned in a previous post, both here and in the US, there is a backlash against austerity cuts and the crisis, brought on us all by greedy bankers but, the new uncertain world has an unpleasant look about it and if more and more countries lurch to the right (politically speaking), we will all be living in an altogether unpleasant world.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:43 pm  

google investing 1 billion

inflation gone down to 0.9% this month

pound getting stronger again against dollar

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:59 pm  

brearley84 wrote:

google investing 1 billion

Yep, in London - land of the remoaners.

brearley84 wrote:

inflation gone down to 0.9% this month

Yep, a whole point one of a percent on last month, I think you'll find it's a temporary blip.

brearley84 wrote:

pound getting stronger again against dollar

Yep, still got 17% to go to get back to pre-brexit levels.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:42 pm  

brearley84 wrote:

google investing 1 billion

inflation gone down to 0.9% this month

pound getting stronger again against dollar

I have posed this question previously and nobody wanted to reply but, with the exception of "possibly" reducing immigration (as yet no deal has been done regarding the single market and there may be a concession on free movement, depending exactly what outcome there is to our Brexit negotiations), exactly where is the benefit in being outside the EU.

Inflation has come down by a fraction (albeit better than expected) but, with the full knowledge that there is a fairly hefty chunk of currenct based inflation to come through .

The pound has increased slightly against the Dollar due to Trump getting the gig in The White House.

So, if you can please point out a couple of medium or long term benefits, it would be great and you would be a step ahead of the politicians who are desperately hiding behind the "dont want to show our hand" nonsense.
A fool can tell you that in an ideal world, we would like tariff free access to the EU market and to "control" immigration but, it's too much for the leader of our country to say.

There is no direction to the good ship "Britannia" at the moment but everything is fine, just over the horizon

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:26 pm  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Did I say Trump was anti Semitic? Bannon made his fortune by investing in 'Seinfeld' (written by Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld). Doesn't mean he isn't anti-Semitic as his wife has explained - he didn't want his daughters going to school with Jews.

It is alarming that you don't consider the Breitbart site as evidence that Bannon is anti-semitic. Take a look. What more do you need?

The article you linked to mentioned anti-Semitism. Your whole premise seemed to be that because Trump appointed this guy, Trump is some form of racist, extremist.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:18 am  

Dally wrote:

The article you linked to mentioned anti-Semitism. Your whole premise seemed to be that because Trump appointed this guy, Trump is some form of racist, extremist.

His comments regarding Muslims and Mexicans has made them feel very welcome in "the land of the free" plus, the appointment of a "white supremacist" to his inner circle.
This kind of thing would usually make it impossible to get elected to high office but, we seem to be entering a worrying new era in world politics.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:41 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I have posed this question previously and nobody wanted to reply but, with the exception of "possibly" reducing immigration (as yet no deal has been done regarding the single market and there may be a concession on free movement, depending exactly what outcome there is to our Brexit negotiations), exactly where is the benefit in being outside the EU.

Inflation has come down by a fraction (albeit better than expected) but, with the full knowledge that there is a fairly hefty chunk of currenct based inflation to come through .

The pound has increased slightly against the Dollar due to Trump getting the gig in The White House.

So, if you can please point out a couple of medium or long term benefits, it would be great and you would be a step ahead of the politicians who are desperately hiding behind the "dont want to show our hand" nonsense.
A fool can tell you that in an ideal world, we would like tariff free access to the EU market and to "control" immigration but, it's too much for the leader of our country to say.

There is no direction to the good ship "Britannia" at the moment but everything is fine, just over the horizon

Yesterday I went to lunch hosted by Nat West - the guest speaker was Stephen Boyle - head economist at RBS.

Very interesting comments the highlights of which were:
1. The UK economy is in pretty good shape 2% growth isn't spectacular but not bad
2. The Euro is a mess and if Greece left the Euro it would be a much bigger calamity that the UK leaving
3. He could not understand anyone investing in the Euro it is so unstable.
4. Very few companies move their HO - his view is London will still be the major European financial in 20 years time
5. The UK need to do a deal with the EEC that is better than the WTO basic deal otherwise it could be tough
6. Europe has a huge problem in replacing the billions the UK contributes to its budget
7. No chance of Scotland leaving the union - there position is worse than Greece
8. No chance of -ve interest rates - this would lead to higher interest rates for consumers
9. JM Keynes is alive and kicking.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:03 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Yesterday I went to lunch hosted by Nat West - the guest speaker was Stephen Boyle - head economist at RBS.

Very interesting comments the highlights of which were:
1. The UK economy is in pretty good shape 2% growth isn't spectacular but not bad
2. The Euro is a mess and if Greece left the Euro it would be a much bigger calamity that the UK leaving
3. He could not understand anyone investing in the Euro it is so unstable.
4. Very few companies move their HO - his view is London will still be the major European financial in 20 years time
5. The UK need to do a deal with the EEC that is better than the WTO basic deal otherwise it could be tough
6. Europe has a huge problem in replacing the billions the UK contributes to its budget
7. No chance of Scotland leaving the union - there position is worse than Greece
8. No chance of -ve interest rates - this would lead to higher interest rates for consumers
9. JM Keynes is alive and kicking.

So listening to a speaker from Nat West, duty bound to be positive about The Nat West's position and to paint a rosy picture, gave you just that.
Listening to the Spanish finance guy on Newsnight this week state categorically that, the UK will not have free access to the EU market, unless it agrees to free movement of people.
He said there would be a cost to both sides (UK and EU) but that Britain would not have free access to their closest and largest market.

The key point from your list is no 5, neatly surrounded by less contentious points.

The other aspect is that we have clearly voted for the unknown.
I may be one of the lucky ones who's life hasnt been too bad for 50 years, 40+ where we have been within the EU.
To risk that for a maybe, is crass stupidity.

The world keeps spinning and things will level out eventually but, we have deliberately put our daily lives into the unknown.