Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:36 pm  

Charlie Sheen wrote:

I'd agree with that, although why anyone thinks Johnson would be a good prime minister is beyond me. Sure, he's got that 'cuddly buffoon thing going for him, but underneath it all is basically a posh Donald Trump with a list of gaffs longer than John Holmes' kicking game.

Yeah I couldn't take Boris seriously as PM. I like him in a fun character way but that doesn't mean I'd want him as PM. Every time I see him I just picture him playing that game of rugby against school kids and trampling over one of them.

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:45 pm  

I see her right & left hands have both fallen on their swords.

She's damaged goods now & will have to go.

The country is in turmoil all thanks to Dave & Co.

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:48 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Yeah, I think May was lulled by the gushing praise she got in some quarters of the press, while labour and Corbyn learned how to deal with the brickbats.
In an unlikely re-run with the same leaders, May would have the benefit of experience but would receive a much harder time. Corbyn couldn't be so easily be dismissed.

The lessons of last time might not be that much use next time. May might make a Corbyn-sequel recovery, but at the moment a painful, protracted political demise looks like a win for her. Still it's all about performance relative to expectation I guess!

This election was pretty much a question of policy (Labour) vs stable leadership ahead of Brexit (Conservatives). The latter has been blown apart by this result, as has the demand for a second Scottish referendum which is what caused the unusual result there. If another election was called it would have to be fought strictly on policy, Labour vs Conservative, the Tories would have to try and shake off the stink of incompetence that they now have and find policies which would appeal to the wider public more than Corbyn's Labour manifesto while maintaining their Conservative values and somehow not alienating the right wing vote which would quickly abandon them if they softened their position too much. Really difficult position for them to be in and I could see them taking a heavy defeat next time unless Brexit drastically changes things.

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:23 pm  

PrinterThe wrote:

Yeah I couldn't take Boris seriously as PM. I like him in a fun character way but that doesn't mean I'd want him as PM. Every time I see him I just picture him playing that game of rugby against school kids and trampling over one of them.

Ah yes

There's also this...
Or this...
Or this

That's how I imagine him entering the Brexit negotiations

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:51 pm  

Boris should not be under estimated - he has a tremendous intellect, he has run one of the biggest cities in world.

He may appear a fool but compared to Corbyn he is an intellectual giant. What has Corbyn ever done outside of politics?

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:08 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

On paper, May is best placed to lead the UK. Which is not to say well placed. The problem is she'll be fending of the sharks in her own party (and given it's the Tory party that is a lot of sharks), while trying to negotiate brexit and appease her deeply unimpressed press baron patrons and DUP props.

Hammond's got less charisma than her, Johnson is a clown, and any moderates would be torn apart by their hard right nut job element. So David Davis it is then. Poor nice bloke.

Meanwhile a Labour Party for whom obituitaries were being written has a chance to get its poop together. Which it really, really needs to do, I admit - but at least now there is hope.

Unlikely she will have as many sharks as Corbyn had in his party - how many shadow cabinet ministers resigned giving him a vote of no confidence?

One thing is for certain - the Tories will run a different campaign next time and they will know what to expect from Labour also Burnham will be a different proposition. You can't run a US type campaign fronted by somebody who simply doesn't really want to engage with anyone.

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:00 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Unlikely she will have as many sharks as Corbyn had in his party - how many shadow cabinet ministers resigned giving him a vote of no confidence?

She's in the Tory party, they're all sharks.

[Mild Rover]

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:03 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Unlikely she will have as many sharks as Corbyn had in his party - how many shadow cabinet ministers resigned giving him a vote of no confidence.


One thing is for certain - the Tories will run a different campaign next time and they will know what to expect from Labour also Burnham will be a different proposition. You can't run a US type campaign fronted by somebody who simply doesn't really want to engage with anyone.

Labour's problem, which goes back at least a generation, is whether it is primarily a socialist party or social Democratic Party. Disloyalty to the leader, whether the left's towards Blair or Blairites towards Corbyn is born of a different political philosophy. It remains a huge challenge, as a successful party has to be a broad church, while still setting out a single clear and coherent vision.
They're politicians, so they play the game, brutally sometimes, but winning is, usually at least in part, a means to another end.

Recent and prospective Tory PMs just seem to want the crown for itself. It comes to something when Simon Schama, the David Attenborough of history, questions whether May even has any political convictions. Seriously, I'm struggling to come up with a couple of principles that May or Johnson stand for. Not just an aspiration to something desirable, but a philosophy - or even just a concept or medium-sized idea.
Any advances on 'free market capitalism' and, erm... 'Pragmatism'.
Austerity I'd count as a policy and fiscal responsibility is a behaviour.

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:27 pm  

Charlie Sheen wrote:

She's in the Tory party, they're all sharks.

And the Labour party is what? Depends which union is paying their wages?

It is difficult to see where the Labour party go from here. They offered everything to everyone, they can up against a shambles of an opponent and they still couldn't win?

What more can they offer as a bribe next time?

Re: General Election 8th June : Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:35 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Labour's problem, which goes back at least a generation, is whether it is primarily a socialist party or social Democratic Party. Disloyalty to the leader, whether the left's towards Blair or Blairites towards Corbyn is born of a different political philosophy. It remains a huge challenge, as a successful party has to be a broad church, while still setting out a single clear and coherent vision.
They're politicians, so they play the game, brutally sometimes, but winning is, usually at least in part, a means to another end.

Recent and prospective Tory PMs just seem to want the crown for itself. It comes to something when Simon Schama, the David Attenborough of history, questions whether May even has any political convictions. Seriously, I'm struggling to come up with a couple of principles that May or Johnson stand for. Not just an aspiration to something desirable, but a philosophy - or even just a concept or medium-sized idea.
Any advances on 'free market capitalism' and, erm... 'Pragmatism'.
Austerity I'd count as a policy and fiscal responsibility is a behaviour.

This depends on where you see balancing the deficit - is it even important? If you believe it is then you either increase revenue or you cut costs? Their doesn't seem a will to increase personal taxation for the majority so what do you do to balance the books?

I actually think the majority do better under the Tories than under Labour. Capitalism has its faults but it does appear to be the only wealth generating option. Socialism/Marxism/Communism simply do not work so what is the alternative?

Johnson is a typical right winger - support business and that will solve your problems provided the cost of the state is controlled.