Re: Workfare judged illegal : Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:37 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

You don't need to have a degree to give a few pointers to visitors or to be able express yourself in a coherent way. You are really stretching a point Damo. If you said she wants to a curator or restorer different matter but there is no indication anywhere that to be the case

There's no indication of the level at which she worked but how would being forced to stack shelves and wash floors at Poundland improve her CV better than voluntarily working in a museum, in whatever capacity?
Given that she wants to eventually land a job in a museum, you could look at her voluntary work in a museum as a sort of minor-internship.
It would certainly look better on her CV for that kind of job than washing Poundland's floor would.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:45 pm  

More to the point, how exactly did Poundland get in to this scheme?

I could understand it if they were genuinely offering some sort of "work experience" coupled with genuine supervision and training, for people that a reasonable assessment had been made might benefit and increase their chances of a fulltime job, if this is on the basis that Poundland both has no actual vacancies, AND that there is a significant cost implication for Poundland if they participate.

ANY other type of job, then at least minimum wage should apply.

I know nothing of Poundland's involvement, but clearly in this lady the posting was asinine, to put it at its best; given what she was already doing, and given the direction she wanted to take, there does not seem to have been anything, at all, to be gained by this forced labour. Unless her labour was in fact of cash benefit to Poundland if she did work which otherwise normally paid staff would have had to do.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:08 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

I don't doubt you at all, my eldest found something similar when she left Uni with a law degree, because we gave our two kids no other option than to have to work for their money (we don't subsidise them at all other than provide me as a free taxi driver), she was writing for jobs in the legal profession before she even left Uni, she quickly realised that two years ago nobody in that profession was taking on new starters and so she lowered her sights and has been working these last two years in a legal services based position in what other "traditional" law firms would look down their noses at in a "call centre" sort of way - meanwhile she knows of at least two other fellow graduates who are still hanging on, probably being supported by gullible parents, in the hope that they will get a position as a trainee solicitor with all fees paid, with their two year old degree and no experience.

Realistic viewpoints and the young often do not mix very well.

Good post.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:23 pm  

Damo-Leeds wrote:

Would you have the fictional character Yosser Hughes working in a Museum?

Cait Reilly volunteered in a museum because she saw that this volunteering was the first rung of the ladder when it comes to getting the career that she wanted. The Work Programme is all about matching clients to suitable posts and unfortunately in reality this hasn't been the case - It's been about creating profits for multinational commercial companies.

I don't disagree regarding the work programme, where I do disagree is your notion that you need a degree to work in a museum - that is simply not true.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:29 pm  

Rooster Booster wrote:

Just noticed this. Outrageous. Are people being expected to work for nothing back home? Disgusting. Shame on whoever thought of that.

No one is being asked to work for nothing - those on the work programme are still drawing JSA

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:19 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

People need to realise that university is not a guaranteed ticket to well paid gainful emploment. Higher Education Statistics Agency have revealed 28% of 2006 graduates were not in full-time employment 3 years later.

This tells us absolutely nothing because you lumped people doing PhD's with people who are unemployed. I couldn't find the survey you mentioned, but in other years more than 3/4s of those not in full time work are in further education.

The Video Ref wrote:

Of those who were, only 16% of men were earning over £20,000 with the figure being 29% for women.

That is simply not true, either you or the person who told you the 'fact' misunderstood the data. The fact that you re-regurgitated it without realising that it is clearly no-where near the truth shows that you don't really know what you're talking about.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:10 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I don't disagree regarding the work programme, where I do disagree is your notion that you need a degree to work in a museum - that is simply not true.

My cousin is a zoologist at the Natural History Museum in London. He has a doctorate in zoology which is the requirement to being a zoologist at the museum. It also qualifies him to be an expert on such programmes such as Inside Natures Giants. Without his Cambridge degree and Doctorate he couldn't work at the museum in his chosen field.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:19 pm  

I recently graduated from university, and to be completely honest, with a masters degree in maths/physics from a top university I felt that I was above menial work. I don't think it makes me a snob (I worked for 6 years at ASDA whilst at college/uni), I just don't see why I should sell myself short and accept a job I am clearly capable of doing better than. I didn't want to lower my chances of getting a graduate level job because of a rubbish minimum wage job.

The graduate job applications are an absolute nightmare, It was pretty much a full time job, and I genuinely don't think I would've been able to give myself the best chance of getting a job if I were working.

I don't think older people have any idea how time consuming graduate job hunting is. To give you a rough idea, for each job I applied to I probably spent a full day initially researching the company, then another full day filling out the application form, and answering all the motivation/competency questions (the average was probably 5 questions, 300 word limit for each) Then there's the online tests (one of the big 4 made me do 5 separate tests). When I passed these stages I spent maybe 3 or 4 full days researching the company/preparing for the interview. Then another day or two revising everything before my assessment day/second interview. I did about 20 graduate applications, and got to the interview stage of most.

Also, I think there are a lot of snobby recruiters out there, and I think that a lot of the prestigious companies would be put off from hiring someone who graduated from uni then went to work at Starbucks or Morrisons. Yes being unemployed looks worse, but if you do some charity work/travelling like I did, and sell it as a gap year it looks a lot better.

Before I get any abuse, In my time unemployed I'm not claiming JSA or any benefits - I'm doing a bit of maths tutoring, and I'm lucky that my parents can help me out a bit.

If I did a subject with limited opportunity for tutoring and my parents couldn't help me out, then I would've claimed JSA whilst I was job hunting, and the forced employment would've lowered my chances of getting a top graduate job compared with those not forced to claim JSA.

Yes there are loads of people with a 2.2 in media studies from a poor uni who probably need to get used to menial work, but not at the expense of punishing talented, poor graduates by forcing them to work at poundland when they should be doing job applications.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:32 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I don't disagree regarding the work programme, where I do disagree is your notion that you need a degree to work in a museum - that is simply not true.

As it happens I spent New Years Eve at a museum and yes my food and drink was possibly served by people without a university education - I didn't ask. I assume that if you want work in a museum full time then it's most likely that this ambition will have to be matched by a university education if you want to progress from serving food and drink.

I don't think anyone is fond of the work programme on here which is a good

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:45 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

No one is being asked to work for nothing - those on the work programme are still drawing JSA

Nice fishing rod, wrong bait though.