Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:44 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Unfortunately, the Beeb is not what it was in terms of news reporting: just to give two examples, it has done almost zilch on the privatisation of the NHS, and has been unquestioning of the lies of IDS.

If you want to get any political comment or criticism of NHS reforms you'd need to watch Casualty or Holby City

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:30 pm  

So here we are yet again with the Eurozone on the brink. The latest Cypriot "under pressure" proposal being taken to Brussels tonight is a 20% Bank raid on 100k plus savings accounts and the introduction of capital controls. The EU led by the Germans are playing hard ball but if this is to be the 'kick the can even further down the road' solution then the message that it will send throughout the troubled euro zone and the world markets beyond is a bad one.

Businesses and investors will think twice about holding money in the other troubled Euro zone countries that includes Italy & Spain and there could be a capital flight from these same countries. What is becoming clear is that if a tiny little country like Cyprus (whose economy is just about a fifth of 1% of the Eurozone) has the capacity to turn a Euro crisis into a catastrophae and is handled so cackhandedly by the EU then how would they cope if they had to mount a rescue of Italy or Spain. Those countries outside the Eurozone should not have to suffer their continued incompetence.

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:59 pm  

Dally, just to make it clear to us all, could you rephrase the paragraph quoted earlier to make it clear that you are actually NOT claiming that the Germans are a nation of bullies that 'need to be stood up to'?

Thanks.


Oh, and while we're at it, can you also confirm that you aren't Captain Mainwaring. Thanks again.

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:51 am  

Scooter Nik wrote:

Oh, and while we're at it, can you also confirm that you aren't Captain Mainwaring. Thanks again.

I can stand up for Dally here, he is by no means Captain Mainwaring, Captain Mainwaring held his bigoted beliefs because he genuinely believed them, in a time when society was so backward as to find them acceptable, Dally is just a troll who chooses an obtuse point of view in order to court controversy.

But be gentle with him, his family seem to endure much hardship (hardship beyond being related to him) and more that their fair share of misfortune, you just have to worry about the poor little lambs.

or maybe you just have to wish he'd makea pact with Kirkstaller....hmmm

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:17 am  

Standee wrote:

I can stand up for Dally here, he is by no means Captain Mainwaring, Captain Mainwaring held his bigoted beliefs because he genuinely believed them, in a time when society was so backward as to find them acceptable, Dally is just a troll who chooses an obtuse point of view in order to court controversy.

But be gentle with him, his family seem to endure much hardship (hardship beyond being related to him) and more that their fair share of misfortune, you just have to worry about the poor little lambs.

or maybe you just have to wish he'd makea pact with Kirkstaller....hmmm

There's a big difference, Capt Mainwaring is a fictional character, whereas Dally ... oh, hang on ...

[DaveO]

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:20 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Unfortunately, the Beeb is not what it was in terms of news reporting: just to give two examples, it has done almost zilch on the privatisation of the NHS, and has been unquestioning of the lies of IDS.

It has certainly taken a turn for the worse but Newsnight when Paxman is on is still worth listening to and Robert Peston isn't exactly some discredited Fleet street hack either.

It entirely suits the government to have an idea conveyed that Germany is at the heart of this and, by implication, so much more powerful than any of the other governments that were involved that it could 'bully' (to use Dally's word) the rest.

I doubt this government is particularly Germanophobic itself. We know that it is Europhobic in terms of some regulation - almost certainly rights for workers - but given Cameron's promise to have a vote on Europe, which is entirely aimed at Eurouphobics (rather even than Eurosceptics) having the old card about a dangerously big, bullying Germany at the heart of the problems is a lovely little theme to be heard - and a distraction from the real issues.

Suits our government? The comments about Germany being behind the deposit raid scheme emanate from all over the place and all sides of the political spectrum. Looking around the net it appears to be accepted that this is the case. I don't know what the fuss is about re this being Germanophobic. I would think the issues with the latest scheme (particularly it being a template for other bail outs) would be as huge whoever was the economic powerhouse of the Eurozone countries. The fact that is Germany, the fact this is case which means German domestic politics has influenced the type of deal done is just the way it is. Critisim of this is not being Germanophobic IMO.

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:26 pm  

Isn't there something in the AUP about repeated trolling? If not, why not?

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:36 am  

DaveO wrote:

... Suits our government? The comments about Germany being behind the deposit raid scheme emanate from all over the place and all sides of the political spectrum. Looking around the net it appears to be accepted that this is the case. I don't know what the fuss is about re this being Germanophobic. I would think the issues with the latest scheme (particularly it being a template for other bail outs) would be as huge whoever was the economic powerhouse of the Eurozone countries. The fact that is Germany, the fact this is case which means German domestic politics has influenced the type of deal done is just the way it is. Critisim of this is not being Germanophobic IMO.

Quite.
(My Germanophobia posts were about Dally's xenophobic tourette's-style outbursts)

Moving on, I think what has shocked people is the way that it's going to be a direct take from bank accounts rather than (as I think JohnD alluded) a less obvious bail-out using government (i.e. taxpayer's) cash or Quantitative easing which just devalues the money in circulation, and inflates part of the problem away but both of which still cost people in the end.
At least in Cyprus it's the big stashes that will be hit and that will include a whole lotta ill-gotten roubles (at which aspect, I just have to smile).

Theo Paphitis is well pissed-off.
Which is a bonus.

[DaveO]

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:46 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Quite.
(My Germanophobia posts were about Dally's xenophobic tourette's-style outbursts)

Moving on, I think what has shocked people is the way that it's going to be a direct take from bank accounts rather than (as I think JohnD alluded) a less obvious bail-out using government (i.e. taxpayer's) cash or Quantitative easing which just devalues the money in circulation, and inflates part of the problem away but both of which still cost people in the end.

The QE route isn't available to them is it unless they exit the Euro.

At least in Cyprus it's the big stashes that will be hit and that will include a whole lotta ill-gotten roubles (at which aspect, I just have to smile).

Theo Paphitis is well pissed-off.
Which is a bonus.

If he is, then I won't be shedding any tears for him but I think the problem is still very serious for much less well off people. I think plenty are going to be caught who haven't done a thing wrong and were just diligent savers which apparently was a big part of Cypriot culture unlike say here.

There are also issues about people having transient money seized just because the cut was taken on a certain day. For example someone taking out a loan who had it transferred into the bank on the "wrong" day could see 40% of it vanish. Even worse if the loan only just took them over the 100K barrier they then end up down to around the 60K mark whereas someone on 99,999 isn't affected.

They should have at least given everyone the 100K exemption and should also have some rule that says you have had to have had more then 100K or more in your account for longer than 6 months or something like that.

The fact this will be used a template for other bailouts could create a run on banks in certain other countries and is bonkers IMO because while the justification for this one is the Cypriot banks are full of dodgy cash so those with laundered money on deposit must not be bailed out by Eurozone tax payers or banks, how does that apply to the likes of Spain and Portugal?

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:44 pm  

DaveO wrote:

The QE route isn't available to them is it unless they exit the Euro...

Yes, I only mentioned QE as an example of something which is on the face of it less shocking but still picks people's pockets.

DaveO wrote:

... If he is, then I won't be shedding any tears for him but I think the problem is still very serious for much less well off people. I think plenty are going to be caught who haven't done a thing wrong and were just diligent savers which apparently was a big part of Cypriot culture unlike say here.

There are also issues about people having transient money seized just because the cut was taken on a certain day. For example someone taking out a loan who had it transferred into the bank on the "wrong" day could see 40% of it vanish. Even worse if the loan only just took them over the 100K barrier they then end up down to around the 60K mark whereas someone on 99,999 isn't affected.

They should have at least given everyone the 100K exemption and should also have some rule that says you have had to have had more then 100K or more in your account for longer than 6 months or something like that.

The fact this will be used a template for other bailouts could create a run on banks in certain other countries and is bonkers IMO because while the justification for this one is the Cypriot banks are full of dodgy cash so those with laundered money on deposit must not be bailed out by Eurozone tax payers or banks, how does that apply to the likes of Spain and Portugal?

Do we know that it will be used as a template?