Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:00 pm  

Mintball wrote:

The first of the most recent recessions kicked in in 2008, as a direct consequence of the actions of big finance. That's why it was a global recession.

However, by 2010, we (the UK) were moving out of it and into growth, albeit slowly.

Subsequently, as a direct consequence of the government's policies, we moved back into recession and away from growth.

These are facts.

The UK definition of a recession is 2 successive quarters of negative growth, this hasn't happened since 2009. There was no double dip. It's not me saying so, but the ONS. Now, they could be a shadowy right wing cabal hell bent on twisting the facts to suit their Tory overlords but I'll take my chances.

Just as a matter of interest, which government policy/policies in particular caused your recession?

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:17 pm  

Anyone who doesn't think Osborne has done a good job should take a look over the Channel at France and see what we could have become. An economic basket case being crippled by socialism. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25402881

Anyone who doesn't think Osborne has done a good job should take a look over the Channel at France and see what we could have become. An economic basket case being crippled by socialism. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25402881

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:42 pm  

Ajw71 wrote: Anyone who doesn't think Osborne has done a good job should take a look over the Channel at France and see what we could have become. An economic basket case being crippled by socialism. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25402881 You give MP's far too much credit, if, in 2010, Osborne had gone and sat in a dark room and did precisely bugger all then we'd still see a recovery, we couldn't say if it'd happen sooner or later, but it would have happened. As I asked Mintball, what policy/policies did Osborne introduce to see the current improvement.

Ajw71 wrote: Anyone who doesn't think Osborne has done a good job should take a look over the Channel at France and see what we could have become. An economic basket case being crippled by socialism. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25402881 You give MP's far too much credit, if, in 2010, Osborne had gone and sat in a dark room and did precisely bugger all then we'd still see a recovery, we couldn't say if it'd happen sooner or later, but it would have happened. As I asked Mintball, what policy/policies did Osborne introduce to see the current improvement.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:12 pm  

Ajw71 wrote: Anyone who doesn't think Osborne has done a good job should take a look over the Channel at France and see what we could have become. An economic basket case being crippled by socialism. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25402881 Which aspects of Socialism are crippling the French economy?

Ajw71 wrote: Anyone who doesn't think Osborne has done a good job should take a look over the Channel at France and see what we could have become. An economic basket case being crippled by socialism. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25402881 Which aspects of Socialism are crippling the French economy?

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:54 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

As I asked Mintball, what policy/policies did Osborne introduce to see the current improvement.

One key one, which I will give them a pinch of credit for, is the government guarantee to home loan providers for first time buyers of up to 15%, effectively opening the vaults and doling out loads more cash - albeit not having to spend actual cash just yet but effectively tying it up - to start the housing market rolling again.

On the downside its not a unique concept to the coalition, has been done in the past to similar success, they were asked time and again to consider this tactic but refused, and basically means they have spent their way out of a building trades disaster - so successful was it initially that they've now had to apply the brakes - the first quarter of next year will be very interesting.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:41 pm  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23079082 I loved this news story when it was first released and I love it again upon re-reading, its got all the hallmarks of the re-writing of the history books by the victors. Fortunately enough people swallow the newsfeeds without question to allow it to pass into the history books unhindered. Give it a few more years and it will all be the Jews fault again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23079082 I loved this news story when it was first released and I love it again upon re-reading, its got all the hallmarks of the re-writing of the history books by the victors. Fortunately enough people swallow the newsfeeds without question to allow it to pass into the history books unhindered. Give it a few more years and it will all be the Jews fault again.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:40 am  

BobbyD wrote:

The UK definition of a recession is 2 successive quarters of negative growth, this hasn't happened since 2009. There was no double dip. It's not me saying so, but the ONS. Now, they could be a shadowy right wing cabal hell bent on twisting the facts to suit their Tory overlords but I'll take my chances.

Just as a matter of interest, which government policy/policies in particular caused your recession?

I don't have a personal recession.

Do you?

The double dip was "revised away", as the story that Jerry linked to illustrates.

The economy was in growth in 2010. The policies of the incoming government put paid to that and sent the country back into recession.

As we've also seen and discussed here, the issue of underemployment is one of the most crucial in terms of asking whether the recovery is really that great – or certainly whether it's having any benefits for most people.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:54 am  

Mintball wrote:

The double dip was "revised away", as the story that Jerry linked to illustrates.

Not only did they re-write the stats FIFTEEN months later (it normally only takes six months for the ONS to get its revised figures together) but at the same time they also went back FIVE YEARS to re-write the stats for 2008 to make that recession look worse - that has to be unprecedented surely ?

Unprecedented in the action of revisiting those statistics over that time period (who ordered this to happen ?) but also unprecedented in assuming that the public are dumb enough to nod wisely and swallow the rhetoric that "None of this is our fault".

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:01 am  

On a slightly different note – but Jerry has raised the issue of undermployment/casualisation anyway – the Scrooge employer that refuses to pay the national minimum wage, charges his staff 17,000% APR for loans on petrol to get between jobs, 'rents' them company cars at £128 a month because they're not paid enough to buy one and then takes hundreds of pounds from their wages if they're in a road accident where they're not to blame.

On a slightly different note – but Jerry has raised the issue of undermployment/casualisation anyway – the Scrooge employer that refuses to pay the national minimum wage, charges his staff 17,000% APR for loans on petrol to get between jobs, 'rents' them company cars at £128 a month because they're not paid enough to buy one and then takes hundreds of pounds from their wages if they're in a road accident where they're not to blame.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:07 am  

Mintball wrote: On a slightly different note – but Jerry has raised the issue of undermployment/casualisation anyway – the Scrooge employer that refuses to pay the national minimum wage, charges his staff 17,000% APR for loans on petrol to get between jobs, 'rents' them company cars at £128 a month because they're not paid enough to buy one and then takes hundreds of pounds from their wages if they're in a road accident where they're not to blame. Having run my own business I'm always prepared to consider the business perspective in issues like this - but frankly if half of what Unison have found is true then the owner of this business does not deserve employees and the contracting authorities should be having a stern word with him for if strike action is called it will affect thousands of elderly and infirm across their regions for what is very clearly a bad employer - there's no excuse.

Mintball wrote: On a slightly different note – but Jerry has raised the issue of undermployment/casualisation anyway – the Scrooge employer that refuses to pay the national minimum wage, charges his staff 17,000% APR for loans on petrol to get between jobs, 'rents' them company cars at £128 a month because they're not paid enough to buy one and then takes hundreds of pounds from their wages if they're in a road accident where they're not to blame. Having run my own business I'm always prepared to consider the business perspective in issues like this - but frankly if half of what Unison have found is true then the owner of this business does not deserve employees and the contracting authorities should be having a stern word with him for if strike action is called it will affect thousands of elderly and infirm across their regions for what is very clearly a bad employer - there's no excuse.