Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:32 am  

The Devil's Advocate wrote:

The whole S.N.P. thing intrigues me.

The Tory Grandee's must be in a bit of a pickle right now.

On the one hand, if they gave Jimmy Crankie her vote & Scotland managed to release themselves from the Union, the "Labour Party" probably won't get in for at least another ten years.

On the other hand, if they fail again, their popularity would undoubtedly wain, as they have no power in Westminster. So the Scotch will turn back to "Labour"

Interesting times.

Indeed and if you add into the equation that Northern Ireland is a strong possibility in also wanting to leave "the Union", Mr Cameron will have plenty to answer for.
The situation in Ireland is perilous.
If the North stays in the United Kingdom, the border controls will be a nightmare, worse now than they were "back in the day" (although that could create a huge boom for "tax free" trades on the black market.
However, Sinn Fein's mouth must be watering at the prospect of a United Ireland.
Ironic that Cameron, a staunch Unionist, has given them the opportunity.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:12 pm  

NOBODY can paint a credible improvement for life outside the EU.

They can; places in the schools you want your kids to go to, places in hospitals, places in GP's, government housing under less strain, jobs and work not being undercut, laws made in Briton by elected people........ I recognise that's not the financial figures you were angling for but for some thats what they want.

Maybe you can paint the credible improvement for staying in the EU.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:22 pm  

wire-quin wrote:

They can; places in the schools you want your kids to go to, places in hospitals, places in GP's, government housing under less strain, jobs and work not being undercut, laws made in Briton by elected people........ I recognise that's not the financial figures you were angling for but for some thats what they want.

Maybe you can paint the credible improvement for staying in the EU.

Dangerous territory there.

First of all, are those school places down to immigration or, under investment in our public services ?
Social housing is in chaos due to Thatcher selling off council houses to buy votes and not replacing them.

Regarding employment, unemployment has been falling steadily for the last 5/6 years and is just about at it's lowest rate (in percentage terms) since the 70's.

British laws are made by the UK parliament and if we want to trade with the EU, our products and services will still have to comply with EU legislation.

IF, what we are told about EU migrants having a positive net effect on the economy is correct, then, it's investment that is missing and after 7 years of austerity cuts( brought on by the banking crash), it's no wonder there is mounting pressure on public services.

You sound like you may have been reading the Daily Mail, which does have a particular take on who is to blame ??

Do you think that people coming to the UK from the EU are here to work or, do you think they are all on benefits.
I tend to go with the former and the jobs market is certainly more buoyant than the early 80's, when I was looking for my first job on £25 a week.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:06 pm  

I think there is one constant here Wrenny, you will hear/see what you want to hear/see without providing the flip side.

I've given you options that some may have been swayed to vote out.

Do you accept it was a fair referendum, clear in/out options and that the majority of voters took the option to vote out? If you accept that I suspect there is a hope that we can move to step 2.

Maybe you can paint the credible improvement for staying in the EU.

Whats £25 got to do with it. How much was a washing machine in them days?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:00 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

IF, what we are told about EU migrants having a positive net effect on the economy is correct, then, it's investment that is missing and after 7 years of austerity cuts( brought on by the banking crash), it's no wonder there is mounting pressure on public services.

The vote to leave the EU for many was nothing to do with the EU, nothing to do with racism or xenophobia, it was a protest against years of incompetent UK government. If the vote to leave the EU has done one thing, it's exposed what a bunch of clowns we have had in charge and have had waiting in the wings to take over. We've been told for years that EU migrants are good for the economy. We've seen enough graphs and charts to last a lifetime. But where is the money? Where is the investment back into communities? Why are sports facilities closing down? Why are libraries closing down? Why are local services being cut? Why are once bustling high streets like ghost towns with more shops empty than occupied? Why does it take 2 weeks to get a doctors appointment? Why can't parents get their kids into their local schools? Why is there a healthcare crisis?

If there is mounting pressure on public services, and these public services are getting cut year on year, is it a good idea to keep adding to the number of people requiring these public services?

[Durham Giant]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:39 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

The vote to leave the EU for many was nothing to do with the EU, nothing to do with racism or xenophobia, it was a protest against years of incompetent UK government. If the vote to leave the EU has done one thing, it's exposed what a bunch of clowns we have had in charge and have had waiting in the wings to take over. We've been told for years that EU migrants are good for the economy. We've seen enough graphs and charts to last a lifetime. But where is the money? Where is the investment back into communities? Why are sports facilities closing down? Why are libraries closing down? Why are local services being cut? Why are once bustling high streets like ghost towns with more shops empty than occupied? Why does it take 2 weeks to get a doctors appointment? Why can't parents get their kids into their local schools? Why is there a healthcare crisis?

If there is mounting pressure on public services, and these public services are getting cut year on year, is it a good idea to keep adding to the number of people requiring these public services?

But the government has said repeatedly immigration will not go down.There will be no deal with INDIA unless they can get more people into the Uk they have said that all along. The same will be true of other countries we try to do deals with.

We may be able to control where the immigrants come from but we will not be able to control immigration as it will be the price for any trade deals.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:07 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

The vote to leave the EU for many was nothing to do with the EU, nothing to do with racism or xenophobia, it was a protest against years of incompetent UK government. If the vote to leave the EU has done one thing, it's exposed what a bunch of clowns we have had in charge and have had waiting in the wings to take over. We've been told for years that EU migrants are good for the economy. We've seen enough graphs and charts to last a lifetime. But where is the money? Where is the investment back into communities? Why are sports facilities closing down? Why are libraries closing down? Why are local services being cut? Why are once bustling high streets like ghost towns with more shops empty than occupied? Why does it take 2 weeks to get a doctors appointment? Why can't parents get their kids into their local schools? Why is there a healthcare crisis?

If there is mounting pressure on public services, and these public services are getting cut year on year, is it a good idea to keep adding to the number of people requiring these public services?

I agree with you and my belief is that without the "banking crisis", there wouldn't have been a "protest" and it is also my belief that many of the problems with schools, NHS etc are down to austerity cuts and not due to "immigrants".

The sacrifice of free movement (in both directions) and distancing ourselves from our closest neighbours and trade zone is a huge price to pay for a few incompetent bankers.

As for "adding to the numbers", I believe that we will to some extent, we will swap EU immigrants for Asian immigrants (an area that is restricted but, still accounts fro the second largest chunk of immigration).

Regarding bustling high streets, this is an area where many local authorities all seem to make the same mistake.
On line shopping is on the increase but, we still keep opening new shopping complexes, which in the short term attract new visitors and increase the number of shoppers but, in the long term, they destroy the traditional town/city centres.
Wakefield is a prime example of this.
Trinity Walk is ok but, it's presence has kille the rest of the city centre, to the point where we are now going to have an indoor market where the Ridings complex was

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:55 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Indeed and if you add into the equation that Northern Ireland is a strong possibility in also wanting to leave "the Union", Mr Cameron will have plenty to answer for.
The situation in Ireland is perilous.
If the North stays in the United Kingdom, the border controls will be a nightmare, worse now than they were "back in the day" (although that could create a huge boom for "tax free" trades on the black market.
However, Sinn Fein's mouth must be watering at the prospect of a United Ireland.
Ironic that Cameron, a staunch Unionist, has given them the opportunity.

Eire may leave the EU. They are more economically aligned with UK than EU.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:07 pm  

King Street Cat wrote:

The vote to leave the EU for many was nothing to do with the EU, nothing to do with racism or xenophobia, it was a protest against years of incompetent UK government. If the vote to leave the EU has done one thing, it's exposed what a bunch of clowns we have had in charge and have had waiting in the wings to take over. We've been told for years that EU migrants are good for the economy. We've seen enough graphs and charts to last a lifetime. But where is the money? Where is the investment back into communities? Why are sports facilities closing down? Why are libraries closing down? Why are local services being cut? Why are once bustling high streets like ghost towns with more shops empty than occupied? Why does it take 2 weeks to get a doctors appointment? Why can't parents get their kids into their local schools? Why is there a healthcare crisis?

If there is mounting pressure on public services, and these public services are getting cut year on year, is it a good idea to keep adding to the number of people requiring these public services?

We import cheap labour who, on average, don't pay anywhere near enough taxes to cover their share of public services costs, hence the decline in the latter despite the ever increasing tax burden (all taxes but income tax). It's a vicious circle. The sooner we decide we can do without coffee shops and the like the sooner economic sanity will return. Looks like the business rates hike could be a trigger for economic disaster - thousands of shops, pubs, restaurants and SME could close (some estimates at 1 in 5!) and with it a potential loss of employment on an epic scale.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:23 pm  

Dally wrote:

Eire may leave the EU. They are more economically aligned with UK than EU.

I think that you may be having a laugh.

They have prospered big time with help from some hefty EU grants so, I really dont see that happening.
Far more likely that "the North" that voted "remain" may wish to go with a United Ireland and leave the British Union and although that option may make economic sense (in terms of allowing open borders), it could also re open the conflict, that so many people worked so hard to end, including the much maligned Tony Blair.
One thing that doesn't really fit over there is "hard" borders, which they would have to have once "we" leave.