Re: More Tory Lies : Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:16 am  

Cronus wrote: There is nothing about the poster and the issue which is inaccurate or untrue. WRONG. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/31/britain-take-back-control-immigration-eu-directive-brexit That Poster says "WE MUST BREAK FREE OF THE EU AND TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS" It was a lie. Here's another time the lie was used..... I get it. You want out and fair enough, but do not, for one second think that the referendum result wasn't influenced by this blatant lie. Same with the Bus.......there's a great number of latent racists who will deny they are racist, but the reality is, if they could blame johnny foreigner for their woes then they will. The Queues experienced by the 60+ year olds who voted leave, when visiting their doctors are the result of tory austerity. The 0% return they get on their savings isn't caused by anything else other than the tories bailing out their mates in the banks....but you carry on with your incorrect stance that both sides lied and therefore it's OK. We may never know what would happen with a second vote, but one indicator is Farrages Hilarious Facebook poll where he tried to prove that Leave would win again.....it was 91% remain by the time he took it down!

Cronus wrote: There is nothing about the poster and the issue which is inaccurate or untrue. WRONG. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/31/britain-take-back-control-immigration-eu-directive-brexit That Poster says "WE MUST BREAK FREE OF THE EU AND TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS" It was a lie. Here's another time the lie was used..... I get it. You want out and fair enough, but do not, for one second think that the referendum result wasn't influenced by this blatant lie. Same with the Bus.......there's a great number of latent racists who will deny they are racist, but the reality is, if they could blame johnny foreigner for their woes then they will. The Queues experienced by the 60+ year olds who voted leave, when visiting their doctors are the result of tory austerity. The 0% return they get on their savings isn't caused by anything else other than the tories bailing out their mates in the banks....but you carry on with your incorrect stance that both sides lied and therefore it's OK. We may never know what would happen with a second vote, but one indicator is Farrages Hilarious Facebook poll where he tried to prove that Leave would win again.....it was 91% remain by the time he took it down!

Re: More Tory Lies : Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:02 am  

AXE2GRIND wrote: WRONG. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/31/britain-take-back-control-immigration-eu-directive-brexit That Poster says "WE MUST BREAK FREE OF THE EU AND TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS" It was a lie. Here's another time the lie was used..... I get it. You want out and fair enough, but do not, for one second think that the referendum result wasn't influenced by this blatant lie. Same with the Bus.......there's a great number of latent racists who will deny they are racist, but the reality is, if they could blame johnny foreigner for their woes then they will. The Queues experienced by the 60+ year olds who voted leave, when visiting their doctors are the result of tory austerity. The 0% return they get on their savings isn't caused by anything else other than the tories bailing out their mates in the banks....but you carry on with your incorrect stance that both sides lied and therefore it's OK. We may never know what would happen with a second vote, but one indicator is Farrages Hilarious Facebook poll where he tried to prove that Leave would win again.....it was 91% remain by the time he took it down! It is not incorrect to suggest both sides lied - you know as well as everyone both sides lied - you need to take your blinkers off. It was Labour who bailed out the bankers not the Tories - the result was a country in heavy debt when the Tories got into power and something had to be done. Perhaps you thought it should be business as usual?

AXE2GRIND wrote: WRONG. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/31/britain-take-back-control-immigration-eu-directive-brexit That Poster says "WE MUST BREAK FREE OF THE EU AND TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS" It was a lie. Here's another time the lie was used..... I get it. You want out and fair enough, but do not, for one second think that the referendum result wasn't influenced by this blatant lie. Same with the Bus.......there's a great number of latent racists who will deny they are racist, but the reality is, if they could blame johnny foreigner for their woes then they will. The Queues experienced by the 60+ year olds who voted leave, when visiting their doctors are the result of tory austerity. The 0% return they get on their savings isn't caused by anything else other than the tories bailing out their mates in the banks....but you carry on with your incorrect stance that both sides lied and therefore it's OK. We may never know what would happen with a second vote, but one indicator is Farrages Hilarious Facebook poll where he tried to prove that Leave would win again.....it was 91% remain by the time he took it down! It is not incorrect to suggest both sides lied - you know as well as everyone both sides lied - you need to take your blinkers off. It was Labour who bailed out the bankers not the Tories - the result was a country in heavy debt when the Tories got into power and something had to be done. Perhaps you thought it should be business as usual?

Re: More Tory Lies : Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:11 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

This is based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever - unless you care to furnish us with examples of how inserting a profit margin and the hefty additional administrative burden of insurance coverage ever produces cheaper outputs. (And while we're here let's not pretend the private sector is a bastion of efficiency).

In any event, the country is totally wed to the NHS form of socialism and very far right views like yours are not in any way popular, or likely to be enacted - even by the Tory party in its current extreme form. They would like it to be funded properly though.

So I see you quickly ignore the abuse and inefficiency points - your argument destroyed

So a cataract surgery is pretty cheap <£1,000 plenty of people either insure or just pay because the NHS will not put you on a list for surgery until you cannot see. So you can't drive, your propensity for falling over increases and your quality of life decreases significantly. Would you pay over the odds in those circumstances - of course you would. Nobody said the private sector is more efficient - only you suggested they weren't. This is about quality of life - you have tooth ache, you don't care what it costs to sort it out. This is where private health care really works and the NHS doesn't

We come back to the point of what are you expecting from the NHS. How much do you spend - if the NHS has 100k of vacancies it must have a huge surplus of monies or it doesn't have the funds to employ them? The ideal that all these jobs are taken up by Locoms or agency workers doesn't ring true - because if that were the case then the performance is not a staffing issue.

Re: More Tory Lies : Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:24 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Interesting day - yet another Labour flight of fantasy. You know when John McDonald is telling lies - he opens his mouth. When asked if the nationalising program he announced a couple of months ago was it he said say yes - now this, he didn't even have the guts to speak with BT first. Then Justine on R4 this morning asked him it this was finally it he said yes within two minutes he said they would also nationalise the broadband operations of Sky, Talk Talk etc. You cannot believe a word he says.

As for the policy - complete and utter madness and not deliverable - the 20bn is understated by 5 and there is likely 600 businesses that would be go to the wall. Labour wants that to happen being so anti-business. Happy days for the Tories - Labour's credibility takes yet another pounding

Despite what you suggest, as far as not telling the truth, Boris remains way, way, way in front in this respect.
Following on from the Brexit referendum, he and his "team" has plumbed new depths in political campaigning.

If seems like anything goes, without fear of reprimand or consequence.

As your Tory friends insist, nobody should be judged until we see the manifestos

Re: More Tory Lies : Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:26 am  

AXE2GRIND wrote: WRONG. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/31/britain-take-back-control-immigration-eu-directive-brexit That Poster says "WE MUST BREAK FREE OF THE EU AND TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS" It was a lie. Here's another time the lie was used..... [img]snip[/img] I get it. You want out and fair enough, but do not, for one second think that the referendum result wasn't influenced by this blatant lie. Same with the Bus.......there's a great number of latent racists who will deny they are racist, but the reality is, if they could blame johnny foreigner for their woes then they will. The Queues experienced by the 60+ year olds who voted leave, when visiting their doctors are the result of tory austerity. The 0% return they get on their savings isn't caused by anything else other than the tories bailing out their mates in the banks....but you carry on with your incorrect stance that both sides lied and therefore it's OK. We may never know what would happen with a second vote, but one indicator is Farrages Hilarious Facebook poll where he tried to prove that Leave would win again.....it was 91% remain by the time he took it down! That's a lovely rant, but bears zero relevance to the post I made, which focused on the background of the picture YOU posted - i.e. the mass influx of well over a million immigrants and refugees through the Balkans, prompted by weak EU leadership and Angela Merkel. The poster specifically targets the EU, as did the speech Farage gave at the time. It's a genuine picture of a real crisis - but in true blinkered left-wing style, you ignore the inconvenient truth and go on the attack. Got to be said though, if you think immigration (EU and non-EU) isn't putting a degree of strain on public services, housing, etc, you're a blithering idiot. You simply cannot bring in a million people net every 3-4 years without some impact. And that's without considering the societal and cultural frictions. I bet you think that doesn't exist either. BTW, as Sal says, Labour bailed out the banks.

AXE2GRIND wrote: WRONG. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/31/britain-take-back-control-immigration-eu-directive-brexit That Poster says "WE MUST BREAK FREE OF THE EU AND TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS" It was a lie. Here's another time the lie was used..... [img]snip[/img] I get it. You want out and fair enough, but do not, for one second think that the referendum result wasn't influenced by this blatant lie. Same with the Bus.......there's a great number of latent racists who will deny they are racist, but the reality is, if they could blame johnny foreigner for their woes then they will. The Queues experienced by the 60+ year olds who voted leave, when visiting their doctors are the result of tory austerity. The 0% return they get on their savings isn't caused by anything else other than the tories bailing out their mates in the banks....but you carry on with your incorrect stance that both sides lied and therefore it's OK. We may never know what would happen with a second vote, but one indicator is Farrages Hilarious Facebook poll where he tried to prove that Leave would win again.....it was 91% remain by the time he took it down! That's a lovely rant, but bears zero relevance to the post I made, which focused on the background of the picture YOU posted - i.e. the mass influx of well over a million immigrants and refugees through the Balkans, prompted by weak EU leadership and Angela Merkel. The poster specifically targets the EU, as did the speech Farage gave at the time. It's a genuine picture of a real crisis - but in true blinkered left-wing style, you ignore the inconvenient truth and go on the attack. Got to be said though, if you think immigration (EU and non-EU) isn't putting a degree of strain on public services, housing, etc, you're a blithering idiot. You simply cannot bring in a million people net every 3-4 years without some impact. And that's without considering the societal and cultural frictions. I bet you think that doesn't exist either. BTW, as Sal says, Labour bailed out the banks.

Re: More Tory Lies : Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:18 pm  

Cronus wrote:

That's a lovely rant, but bears zero relevance to the post I made, which focused on the background of the picture YOU posted - i.e. the mass influx of well over a million immigrants and refugees through the Balkans, prompted by weak EU leadership and Angela Merkel. The poster specifically targets the EU, as did the speech Farage gave at the time. It's a genuine picture of a real crisis - but in true blinkered left-wing style, you ignore the inconvenient truth and go on the attack.

Got to be said though, if you think immigration (EU and non-EU) isn't putting a degree of strain on public services, housing, etc, you're a blithering idiot. You simply cannot bring in a million people net every 3-4 years without some impact. And that's without considering the societal and cultural frictions. I bet you think that doesn't exist either.

BTW, as Sal says, Labour bailed out the banks.

Dont forget Golum Brown sold our gold at a record low, I wish I was thick enough to believe in Labour, the idealism is laudable, but it is not practical. There will always be those that have, and those whom that have not, maybe it's time Chardonnay from the Estate crosed her legs and got a job, but no, the tax payer bails her out.

Labour screwed our country, do I trust Boris, no, do I trust Cringebin more, hell no. It's like pulling a card on 16 against a 7, you want a 5, the dealer will get 4 and a picture.

What the idiot left fail to realise is that only succesful people pay their way, you dont pay tax on benefits.

Re: More Tory Lies : Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:27 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Despite what you suggest, as far as not telling the truth, Boris remains way, way, way in front in this respect.
Following on from the Brexit referendum, he and his "team" has plumbed new depths in political campaigning.

If seems like anything goes, without fear of reprimand or consequence.

As your Tory friends insist, nobody should be judged until we see the manifestos

Not compared to McDonald he doesn't - and their tactics are no different to Labour - workers rights, environmental protection, NHS spiralling US drug costs, no further nationalisation etc.

All labour are doing are rolling out a host of completely unachievable policies its lack credibility - 4 day week, turn up for work when you feel like it, no controls on immigration, £15/hr at McDonalds etc Google/Apple & Facebook are going to fund everything Labour wants to do - really, do Labour think these corporations are as stupid as they are and they will simply lie down and go come on John tickle my tummy - it isn't credible.

Labour criticised the Tories for the time it will take to get their environmental policy to fruition yet launch two policies - equal pay for ladies and broadband both of which will take as long to implement as the Tory environmental policy

Re: More Tory Lies : Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:12 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Not compared to McDonald he doesn't - and their tactics are no different to Labour - workers rights, environmental protection, NHS spiralling US drug costs, no further nationalisation etc.

All labour are doing are rolling out a host of completely unachievable policies its lack credibility - 4 day week, turn up for work when you feel like it, no controls on immigration, £15/hr at McDonalds etc Google/Apple & Facebook are going to fund everything Labour wants to do - really, do Labour think these corporations are as stupid as they are and they will simply lie down and go come on John tickle my tummy - it isn't credible.

Labour criticised the Tories for the time it will take to get their environmental policy to fruition yet launch two policies - equal pay for ladies and broadband both of which will take as long to implement as the Tory environmental policy

Labour haven't yet started bribing opposition candidates, something which is illegal and yet again, shows how far the Tories, with Boris at the help and Cummings in the backroom, will stoop.
We now know what "do or die translates to".
Not content with proroguing Parliament, they are offering to "pay" the opposition not to stand.

They have always said that politics is a murky business and it certainly is at the moment.

Much as I despise Ann Widdecombe's views, I do believe that she has been tapped up.
Her comment was that she "would swear on the bible", which for her makes it serious, for others in her former party, probably not.

Re: More Tory Lies : Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:22 pm  

Cronus wrote:

That's a lovely rant, but bears zero relevance to the post I made, which focused on the background of the picture YOU posted

Really? Could have sworn you said:

Cronus wrote:

There is nothing about the poster and the issue which is inaccurate or untrue.

Sorry but your post was most certainly one that claimed that

Cronus wrote:

There is nothing about the poster <snip> which is inaccurate or untrue.

If you're going to attempt to patronise someone, be careful that you dont end up looking like an idiot...

Re: More Tory Lies : Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:14 pm  

AXE2GRIND wrote: Really? Could have sworn you said: Sorry but your post was most certainly one that claimed that If you're going to attempt to patronise someone, be careful that you dont end up looking like an idiot... Riiiiiight. Take your medication. I was discussing the reaction to an anti-EU poster using a genuine picture (confirmed by the photographer) of mass uncontrolled migration flooding through the Balkans, and of how the snowflake left - as usual - went on the attack with name calling and vitriol rather than focusing on the crisis itself; ideological denial. You reply with a rant about a bus, old folks at the GP, and then make yourself look a little daft with your blatantly wrong accusations about the bank bailout. You make a lot of mistakes on here, don't you. But I'll humour you. Are you saying the poster featured a doctored, untrue or incorrect picture? Or that it wasn't directly aimed at the EU and their failure to manage the crisis? Let me guess, from the link your posted you're going to say we could have controlled immigration all along? That would have been difficult considering mass immigration was Labour government policy from late 2000, and anyone who questioned this policy was shouted down as racist. This is also why the UK was one of only 3 EU countries (with Ireland & Sweden) that decided not to impose labour access restrictions on A8 citizens in 2004. Guess where those citizens went? Labour and their civil servants were desperate to drive 'diversity', in the knowledge that immigrants are generally more likely to vote Labour. Remember Gordon Brown's 'bigoted woman' comment? That was almost a decade later, still disregarding and attacking the legitimate concerns of the electorate. Even now, any attempt to stiffen immigration rules results in cries of racism by those who STILL pretend everything is rosy. Don't believe me? Migration, 10 year comparison, aligned to Labour taking office: 1988-1997: 345,000 net (2.8m gross) 1998-2007: 2,070,000 net (5.2m gross)

AXE2GRIND wrote: Really? Could have sworn you said: Sorry but your post was most certainly one that claimed that If you're going to attempt to patronise someone, be careful that you dont end up looking like an idiot... Riiiiiight. Take your medication. I was discussing the reaction to an anti-EU poster using a genuine picture (confirmed by the photographer) of mass uncontrolled migration flooding through the Balkans, and of how the snowflake left - as usual - went on the attack with name calling and vitriol rather than focusing on the crisis itself; ideological denial. You reply with a rant about a bus, old folks at the GP, and then make yourself look a little daft with your blatantly wrong accusations about the bank bailout. You make a lot of mistakes on here, don't you. But I'll humour you. Are you saying the poster featured a doctored, untrue or incorrect picture? Or that it wasn't directly aimed at the EU and their failure to manage the crisis? Let me guess, from the link your posted you're going to say we could have controlled immigration all along? That would have been difficult considering mass immigration was Labour government policy from late 2000, and anyone who questioned this policy was shouted down as racist. This is also why the UK was one of only 3 EU countries (with Ireland & Sweden) that decided not to impose labour access restrictions on A8 citizens in 2004. Guess where those citizens went? Labour and their civil servants were desperate to drive 'diversity', in the knowledge that immigrants are generally more likely to vote Labour. Remember Gordon Brown's 'bigoted woman' comment? That was almost a decade later, still disregarding and attacking the legitimate concerns of the electorate. Even now, any attempt to stiffen immigration rules results in cries of racism by those who STILL pretend everything is rosy. Don't believe me? Migration, 10 year comparison, aligned to Labour taking office: 1988-1997: 345,000 net (2.8m gross) 1998-2007: 2,070,000 net (5.2m gross)