Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:03 am  

I liked Priti Vacant's little spiel about British companies needing to train British workers up to have the skills they need, so that they can do the work which has previously been done by unskilled immigrants.

It's Schrodinger's worker - both skilled and unskilled at the same time.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:23 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

I liked Priti Vacant's little spiel about British companies needing to train British workers up to have the skills they need, so that they can do the work which has previously been done by unskilled immigrants.

It's Schrodinger's worker - both skilled and unskilled at the same time.

Indeed - give British workers the skills they need to do work that I've just described as "low skilled." It's an interesting exercise in rhetorical gymnastics, designed for the purpose of throwing red meat to the Tory gammon base, who are still high on the prospect of booting out all the EU types.

Obviously it won't work - and when the Brit workers forced into "low skilled" work find themselves managed by the "brightest and best" immigrants, I expect there will yet another outpouring of nationalistic angst, cos they're coming over here, taking our jobs.

Meanwhile, in my sector, where we have 100k unfilled vacancies, we are now to fish in a pond of students, long term sick and family carers for our new intake. Lovely stuff.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:48 am  

You can already see what's coming...

Leaving the EU isn't really going to solve any domestic problems, and as soon as that becomes apparent, even to the most fanatical beleavers, the tabloids are going to need a new target. That's where the 'economically inactive' come in. Hey ho, we go full circle, and the students, the scroungers, the benefit cheats, the single parents, the ill, the sick, and the dying will once again find themselves in the cross hairs of a rabid populace.

You can already see the headline in the Daily Mail - Economically inactive single mother, who splashes benefits on widescreen TV, Ibiza holidays, and 30-a-day smoking habit, is COSTING YOU £60,000 a year.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:55 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

You can already see the headline in the Daily Mail - Economically inactive single mother, who splashes benefits on widescreen TV, Ibiza holidays, and 30-a-day smoking habit, is COSTING YOU £60,000 a year.

And she's economically inactive because the local childcare provision, staffed by British workers with their newly acquired skills, are paying higher wages, so the resultant increased fees make it impossible for anyone on higher but still low wages to afford?

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:55 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

You can already see what's coming...

Leaving the EU isn't really going to solve any domestic problems, and as soon as that becomes apparent, even to the most fanatical beleavers, the tabloids are going to need a new target. That's where the 'economically inactive' come in. Hey ho, we go full circle, and the students, the scroungers, the benefit cheats, the single parents, the ill, the sick, and the dying will once again find themselves in the cross hairs of a rabid populace.

You can already see the headline in the Daily Mail - Economically inactive single mother, who splashes benefits on widescreen TV, Ibiza holidays, and 30-a-day smoking habit, is COSTING YOU £60,000 a year.

You are Mystic Meg and I claim my £5

I think that you are bang on.
Next thing you know is that Boris will employ an extreme right wing adviser, who advocates euthanasia for anyone who doesnt fit the "Tory ideal"
Mind you, I dont think that could happen in a civilised society

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:32 am  

bren2k wrote:

Indeed - give British workers the skills they need to do work that I've just described as "low skilled." It's an interesting exercise in rhetorical gymnastics, designed for the purpose of throwing red meat to the Tory gammon base, who are still high on the prospect of booting out all the EU types.

Obviously it won't work - and when the Brit workers forced into "low skilled" work find themselves managed by the "brightest and best" immigrants, I expect there will yet another outpouring of nationalistic angst, cos they're coming over here, taking our jobs.

Meanwhile, in my sector, where we have 100k unfilled vacancies, we are now to fish in a pond of students, long term sick and family carers for our new intake. Lovely stuff.

I think you make some good points - are we saying that no Brits should be expected to do unskilled labour?

My view is we don't as a nation invest enough in our workforce and we have to start somewhere. The knock on effect of that is the quality of management in this country is well below where it should and if we want to stop your scenario then we need to have good quality middle managers who can add real value and who can take their team on a quality journey.

As the saying goes "you reap what you sew"

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:52 am  

bren2k wrote:

And she's economically inactive because the local childcare provision, staffed by British workers with their newly acquired skills, are paying higher wages, so the resultant increased fees make it impossible for anyone on higher but still low wages to afford?

she could always not get pregnant with kids she can't afford?

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:21 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I think you make some good points - are we saying that no Brits should be expected to do unskilled labour?

My view is we don't as a nation invest enough in our workforce and we have to start somewhere. The knock on effect of that is the quality of management in this country is well below where it should and if we want to stop your scenario then we need to have good quality middle managers who can add real value and who can take their team on a quality journey.

As the saying goes "you reap what you sew"

No "we're" not - I, however, am saying that the immigration policy is incoherent, runs counter to a strong economy and is based on nothing more than a desire to appease the new Tory base, which includes a significant number of people who are vocally anti-immigration. Sooner or later, it will butt up against their previous base - business - who will rail against the notion that they have to keep increasing wages; that means higher prices, or lower shareholder dividends, or both if increasing prices loses market share.

I am at the sharp end of this - we can't recruit people in the numbers we need for love nor money, despite a training and development spend that is 25% higher than our sector average, and paying hourly rates that are above the NLW. There is something about the nature of the work that we do, that many Brits feel is beneath them; or its too hard; or something else - because the H&S Care sector is currently running at 100k vacancies and rising, so it's definitely not just us. I would love to be able to recruit a few hundred migrant workers who want to make a life here - it would solve most of my problems.

I'm not sure where you get your information about the quality of L&M in the UK; it's not my experience, but I willingly admit that my experience is limited to the places/sectors I've worked in. There are always examples of people who have been promoted to the levels of their own incompetence - Priti Patel is a good one - but I don't see it as an endemic issue - and it has little to do with the subject under discussion.

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:49 am  

bren2k wrote:

No "we're" not - I, however, am saying that the immigration policy is incoherent, runs counter to a strong economy and is based on nothing more than a desire to appease the new Tory base, which includes a significant number of people who are vocally anti-immigration. Sooner or later, it will butt up against their previous base - business - who will rail against the notion that they have to keep increasing wages; that means higher prices, or lower shareholder dividends, or both if increasing prices loses market share.

I am at the sharp end of this - we can't recruit people in the numbers we need for love nor money, despite a training and development spend that is 25% higher than our sector average, and paying hourly rates that are above the NLW. There is something about the nature of the work that we do, that many Brits feel is beneath them; or its too hard; or something else - because the H&S Care sector is currently running at 100k vacancies and rising, so it's definitely not just us. I would love to be able to recruit a few hundred migrant workers who want to make a life here - it would solve most of my problems.

I'm not sure where you get your information about the quality of L&M in the UK; it's not my experience, but I willingly admit that my experience is limited to the places/sectors I've worked in. There are always examples of people who have been promoted to the levels of their own incompetence - Priti Patel is a good one - but I don't see it as an endemic issue - and it has little to do with the subject under discussion.

Ifyou are serious, post a link to a job advert, I am sure I can find 25 applicants iF you are genuine...

Re: TORY Mansion tax and pension raid ? : Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:54 am  

IR80 wrote: Ifyou are serious, post a link to a job advert, I am sure I can find 25 applicants iF you are genuine... Just have a look on the NHS website, there were approaching 100,000 vacancies in the NHS so, you are going to need to know an awful lot of people and with a diverse range of skills. https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/cgi-bin/login_applicant.cgi Fill your boots !

IR80 wrote: Ifyou are serious, post a link to a job advert, I am sure I can find 25 applicants iF you are genuine... Just have a look on the NHS website, there were approaching 100,000 vacancies in the NHS so, you are going to need to know an awful lot of people and with a diverse range of skills. https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/cgi-bin/login_applicant.cgi Fill your boots !