[Bullseye]

Re: World-beating test and trace system : Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:02 am  

The NHS is on Windows 10 now.

Re: World-beating test and trace system : Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:04 am  

Bullseye wrote:

The NHS is on Windows 10 now.

I could understand that on critical equipment e.g. MRI scanners but not normal day to day activity - surely

Re: World-beating test and trace system : Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:27 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

This is not the first major issue with an Excel spreadsheet - sadly their use in high level projection outcomes is far too prevalent - a case of where a little knowledge is dangerous.

Are the NHS still using very old versions of Windows?

It's crazy to blame excel for the problem.
Who wrote the bloody software and who doled out the contract to such an inept organisation.

There is a common theme running all through the pandemic response and clearly, those "in charge" are just not up to the job.
Our PM proclaimed IN JUNE that we had a WORLD BEATING system.

It the Tories were in charge of broadband, we'd all be on dial up and being told just how good it was

Re: World-beating test and trace system : Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:46 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

It's crazy to blame excel for the problem.
Who wrote the bloody software and who doled out the contract to such an inept organisation.

There is a common theme running all through the pandemic response and clearly, those "in charge" are just not up to the job.
Our PM proclaimed IN JUNE that we had a WORLD BEATING system.

It the Tories were in charge of broadband, we'd all be on dial up and being told just how good it was

I appreciate you think all this should be under public control and it is easy to push the blame. We don't know what the government have asked for - the bods at PHE a public body have hardly covered themselves in glory.

I would agree the government's handling of the pandemic has been shoddy but it hasn't been helped by the poor standards of the public sector supporting it.

Re: World-beating test and trace system : Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:00 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I would agree the government's handling of the pandemic has been shoddy but it hasn't been helped by the poor standards of the public sector supporting it.

35 organisations are listed as “data processors” involved in the NHS Test and Trace system but only 4 are NHS bodies. 4 are Lighthouse Labs. A further 4 are Public Health England bodies and another is the Ministry of Defence. The remaining 22 are private companies.

Re: World-beating test and trace system : Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:09 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I appreciate you think all this should be under public control and it is easy to push the blame. We don't know what the government have asked for - the bods at PHE a public body have hardly covered themselves in glory.

I would agree the government's handling of the pandemic has been shoddy but it hasn't been helped by the poor standards of the public sector supporting it.

The response to the pandemic is indeed under the governments "control".
They are ultimately in charge of the procurement of everything, form aprons to vaccines etc and with regard to the "test and trace", it's been oversold and under delivered since it's inception.
Now, I'm fully aware that Boris doesn't write the software for the system - just imagine if he did but, he was quick enough to take credit for it's roll out and by god, he has to carry the can when it goes wrong.
All of the glory but, none of the pain.
So quick to wave the flags and yet so damn slow, even hiding when the shmidt comes down.

My lad is a graduate software engineer and he explained exactly where the problem was with using excel for this application.
He said that they had covered this type of issue at GCSE and A level.
Now, if a lad in his early 20's knows the limitations of using excel to collate and store this type of information, just who the hell have the government used for their software development.
You will no doubt recall the earlier issues of surrounding the communication (or lack of it) between mobile devices ?

Re: World-beating test and trace system : Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:22 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The response to the pandemic is indeed under the governments "control".
They are ultimately in charge of the procurement of everything, form aprons to vaccines etc and with regard to the "test and trace", it's been oversold and under delivered since it's inception.
Now, I'm fully aware that Boris doesn't write the software for the system - just imagine if he did but, he was quick enough to take credit for it's roll out and by god, he has to carry the can when it goes wrong.
All of the glory but, none of the pain.
So quick to wave the flags and yet so damn slow, even hiding when the shmidt comes down.

My lad is a graduate software engineer and he explained exactly where the problem was with using excel for this application.
He said that they had covered this type of issue at GCSE and A level.
Now, if a lad in his early 20's knows the limitations of using excel to collate and store this type of information, just who the hell have the government used for their software development.
You will no doubt recall the earlier issues of surrounding the communication (or lack of it) between mobile devices ?

The government might have overall responsibility for everything but do you expect them to place the orders for PPE or manage the actual development of the track and trace? Of course not - this devolved down to civil servants. If they don't perform then the government has to take the flack for ineffective performance but they relied on civil servants to deliver the project.

Perhaps they should have personally sorted out every school too - that is the job of the people who run the schools - sadly they were too busy enjoying the elongated break and weren't minded to contribute - again it may be the government who ultimately take the flack but it is the public employees who caused the issues.

The NHS has a budget which they decide what to spend it on - PHE were party to the study about the impact of a pandemic but - quite rightly - decided to spend the money on a more pressing issues. All of a sudden its the government's issue - even lack of PPE in private care homes was the government's fault.

The government have handled this situation very poorly but the support from the public sector has been pretty shambolic

Re: World-beating test and trace system : Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:36 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The government might have overall responsibility for everything but do you expect them to place the orders for PPE or manage the actual development of the track and trace? Of course not - this devolved down to civil servants. If they don't perform then the government has to take the flack for ineffective performance but they relied on civil servants to deliver the project.

Perhaps they should have personally sorted out every school too - that is the job of the people who run the schools - sadly they were too busy enjoying the elongated break and weren't minded to contribute - again it may be the government who ultimately take the flack but it is the public employees who caused the issues.

The NHS has a budget which they decide what to spend it on - PHE were party to the study about the impact of a pandemic but - quite rightly - decided to spend the money on a more pressing issues. All of a sudden its the government's issue - even lack of PPE in private care homes was the government's fault.

The government have handled this situation very poorly but the support from the public sector has been pretty shambolic

If the PM hails the system as "world beating", at the very least, you would expect it to work and work reasonably well.

I wouldn't expect Boris to be personally be placing orders for PPE or writing the software for the test and trace system.
We can take the view that they should sort out the problem with their "supplier" or, take your view that, it's not actually their fault and lets put up with more lies and failings.
The one certainty is that whoever signed off on some of this stuff is not up to the job.

Over sell, under deliver, has been the theme of the Bojo reign and you seem happy for it to continue.
Next up Brexit

Re: World-beating test and trace system : Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:59 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

If the PM hails the system as "world beating", at the very least, you would expect it to work and work reasonably well.

I wouldn't expect Boris to be personally be placing orders for PPE or writing the software for the test and trace system.
We can take the view that they should sort out the problem with their "supplier" or, take your view that, it's not actually their fault and lets put up with more lies and failings.
The one certainty is that whoever signed off on some of this stuff is not up to the job.

Over sell, under deliver, has been the theme of the Bojo reign and you seem happy for it to continue.
Next up Brexit

No deal Brexit - as was always going to be the case. Perhaps if you had the likes of John Caudwell people who are used to negotiating big deals doing the negotiating rather than some inappropriate civil servants things would have be better?

The government has ultimate responsibility and will judged in 4 years time on their performance - but blame needs to be apportioned correctly. If civil servants have stepped up to the mark or private contractors then they need to exposed so the public can get a true picture.

I would expect the public sector to be weak because its full of people who aren't employable in the private sector or who have been found wanting when working in the private sector e.g. Dido which is why they end up where they do. The idea of an increased state full of these incompetents doesn't bare thinking about

Re: World-beating test and trace system : Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:34 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Perhaps they should have personally sorted out every school too - that is the job of the people who run the schools - sadly they were too busy enjoying the elongated break and weren't minded to contribute - again it may be the government who ultimately take the flack but it is the public employees who caused the issues.

When did the people running schools take an elongated break