Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:32 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Are you sure about that? Aren't they installed 'on the cloud'? It's no different to the PS3, you can just delete them when you are finished.

Well according to the podcasts I listen to, they thought you were having to install them onto the XBone itself.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:05 am  

Saddened! wrote:

The media coverage is ridiculous at the moment, and as biased as I am. "Xbox One online only", "Xbox One can't play games at your friends" "Xbox One ate my hamster". Connecting to the internet every 24 hours will affect virtually no one in the UK. Who, in this day and age, has no internet connection? If you can't afford broadband, you shouldn't be paying £400 for a games console. It's just a complete non-issue to 99.99% of people.

I think you're being quite insular and not realising/caring about the bigger picture. Just because it will be OK for us and the US doesn't mean it's not a problem. Microsoft is now unlikely to make any strides against Sony in other areas with unreliable internet connections. It will also still be a bit of an inconvenience for plenty of people here at times. What about when people move house? Or when students go to Uni? Or if you're holidaying within the UK and want to take your console with you? Or visiting family who live elsewhere? Or just the simple and fairly common issue of your internet connection going down?

With this and your point about subscription fees I also think you're failing to differentiate between something that is required to enable full functionality of a product, and something that is needed to make it work at all. As a comparison, it's like the difference between a smartphone that doesn't have a dataplan, and one that doesn't have a dialtone unless you take out an extra subscription. Without an internet connection the XBone appears to be a large, ugly brick.

Saddened! wrote:

Can't take a game to a mates house? Yes you can, you can even give him the game when you are done with it and he can play it. The used game fee thing is another issue where the media is spamming MS with headline grabbing criticism when it'll be exactly the same on the Playstation. Do you really think developers are going to be okay with used games not earning them any revenue on PS when they will on Xbox? No, companies like EA will just charge the fee themselves.

Sony will be doing EVERYTHING Microsoft does eventually, bar possibly the 24 connection thing. We had this the last time over charging for Xbox Live. People said it would kill MS's chances and Sony would win because online should be free and virtually all the Sony fans on here were mocking it and saying it's ridiculous having to pay for it and they would never do it. Now Sony are doing exactly the same thing, it's suddenly okay. And it's nowhere in the media either, it's not being used as a headline grabbing stick to beat Sony with? Why?

That's just guesswork from your fanboyism at work. It's a possibility, but so far with very little, if any, evidence to back it up. What Microsoft have effectively done is make the call for developers on how it will be done and force consumers into it, and I can't help but feel it's part of the deal to get in bed with EA. Sony have left the door open for it and it will now be up to the publishers individually.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:12 pm  

carl_spackler wrote:

That's just guesswork from your fanboyism at work. It's a possibility, but so far with very little, if any, evidence to back it up. What Microsoft have effectively done is make the call for developers on how it will be done and force consumers into it, and I can't help but feel it's part of the deal to get in bed with EA. Sony have left the door open for it and it will now be up to the publishers individually.

What Sony have done it just play the cheap PR game. Shouting very loudly about very minor issues to score easy PR wins. If you read the history about used games for example, it's clear they've changed their policy in the last month or so on this. I'll bet there is a lot of hurried meetings being scheduled and a lot of angry developers demanding to know what's going on. They've played an absolute blinder slipping the charging for online play on PS4 in under the radar while everyone is busy making lists about minor issues MS has got wrong.

The only thing MS has done wrong IMO is the always on thing. I can see why they are doing it, and there are genuinely very few people that will be affected, but there has to be a compromise somewhere. Perhaps a mobile sim card in the console that does the checking in, as apparently all it's doing is sending and receiving 'a few Kbs' of data, or even letting it be done via Smartglass on your mobile perhaps?

It'll be interesting to see how the pirates handle this gen. It seems Sony is hoping it's well locked down, but once breached will be easy piratable. MS's system seems very piratable to me, surely it'll be relatively easy to decipher the authorisation codes they get back from MS and duplicate them?

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:15 pm  

well i have a ps3 but don't have a particular brand loyalty. I bought the ps3 because i wanted a blu ray player. I was pleased when sony announced it was using p.c cpu's so i could have a direct hardware comparison of the two consoles before i made a decision. I'm unaware if microsoft has released any hardware specs of yet. I don't like the sound of having to be online to play a single player game (even a ping every 24hrs) and i resent the fact that i can't sell something i have paid for. So as of this moment Ps4 is favourite atm.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:46 pm  

gary numan wrote:

i resent the fact that i can't sell something i have paid for.

This is exactly what I'm on about with the media's reporting. Who said you can't sell used games on Xbox One? Unless I've missed something, they've said they won't charge fees for used games and that you can buy and sell used games using 'participating retailers'. What I took this to mean is that specific retailers only will be able to trade used games, giving them the ability to re-license games when traded in. Whilst this may limit the value, it will also mean the developers get a slice of the used game market. You can give games you've finished to someone who's been on your friends list for 30 days without paying a fee too.

A lot of this controversy is just the dying embers of people hanging onto the way it was. This will definitely be the final generation with physical media used at all. The PC market, for example Steam and Origin, has been like this for years and the PC crowd don't seem to mind. No trading of used games on PC is there? One time only activation codes have been in used for 10 years+. Other media is the same, you can't legally sell your itunes music when you are done with it. Microsoft has embraced that future now, Sony has just delayed it to score a cheap PR win for this round.

One of the best bits about Xbox One, again unless I've misunderstood it, is the ability to login to your account at a friends house and play your games without having the discs with you. So you can login at a mates and continue your game from where you left off. That's a brilliant feature, particularly for the many kids from broken homes who have an Xbox at both their parent's houses.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:28 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

What Sony have done it just play the cheap PR game. Shouting very loudly about very minor issues to score easy PR wins. If you read the history about used games for example, it's clear they've changed their policy in the last month or so on this. I'll bet there is a lot of hurried meetings being scheduled and a lot of angry developers demanding to know what's going on. They've played an absolute blinder slipping the charging for online play on PS4 in under the radar while everyone is busy making lists about minor issues MS has got wrong.

The only thing MS has done wrong IMO is the always on thing. I can see why they are doing it, and there are genuinely very few people that will be affected, but there has to be a compromise somewhere. Perhaps a mobile sim card in the console that does the checking in, as apparently all it's doing is sending and receiving 'a few Kbs' of data, or even letting it be done via Smartglass on your mobile perhaps?

It'll be interesting to see how the pirates handle this gen. It seems Sony is hoping it's well locked down, but once breached will be easy piratable. MS's system seems very piratable to me, surely it'll be relatively easy to decipher the authorisation codes they get back from MS and duplicate them?

Again, you seem to be basing your view on your own personal circumstances being applicable to the vast majority. There are people who live outside of urban areas with much less reliable internet service, quite a few countries across Europe with much weaker infrastructures, and lots of Australia is terrible for it. You appear to be Microsoft's dream customer, you have the tech requirements available to you, and a similar mentality. You don't seem to be able to see that to a lot of other people Microsoft have effectively just said 'We don't give a sh*t'. Especially when their follow-up point has been to say, 'if you don't have internet access, we have a product for you: Stick with the 360.'

I think if they are determined to do the once every 24 hours thing they should have incorporated 3G with a SIM card like you suggest, but even that wouldn't help everyone, there are still plenty of sparse areas where you don't get it.

I don't agree they've only made the one mistake, either. The Kinect is another. Firstly, making it a mandatory part of the console is pretty much the same error Sony made with the PS3, foisting tech that many don't want/need into the console and pushing up the price. Secondly, making it stay on all of the time. I haven't heard anybody yet who hasn't thought that a terrible idea, and potentially creepy. Overall I just think that Microsoft have had entirely the same problem Sony did last time around and got so preoccupied with finding things that the XBone can do and not considered what it is that consumers actually want, so have ended up with a lot of fancy tricks that increase cost and many simply aren't that interested in. As a result there are just a lot of little things adding up to make the PS4 look better at this moment in time. The ironic thing is that I don't really think that the PS4 looks up to that much, but in comparison to the XBone and Wii U it's looking like the only sensible option in a couple of years' time.

You make a good point about piracy, it always has an impact upon console sales. Microsoft pretty much based their sales strategy on it to obtain market share with the first XBox. Sony were quite arrogant about the PS3 being unhackable, which essentially painted a target on their own backs and came back to bite them with the PSN attacks. I wouldn't be surprised if this whole used game/every 24 hours stuff has the hackers shift their focus onto Microsoft. If they manage to get at Microsoft and affect the stability of XBox Live it could be truly catastrophic for Microsoft, but then it could also stimulate console sales.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:52 pm  

carl_spackler wrote:

Especially when their follow-up point has been to say, 'if you don't have internet access, we have a product for you: Stick with the 360.'

That was pretty ridiculous and a sign of someone under serious pressure. Hopefully all the outbursts and anger will make them rethink it.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:29 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

I'm completely biased to start with. So Xbox for me. Anyone changing sides this time?

I'm a tad biased towards Playstation to be honest and always have been, I had the 360 also but sold it, I just despised it for some reason.

I like the PS4 launch and being that it (in my opinion) looks as if it's trying to be a games console rather than anything else is a bonus, I don't want / have need for a camera or moving 'kinect' style games. I'd rather go bowling or play squash for real and not jump about in my living room although I see the attraction for kids. The fact that the price is less and I simply get a console and pad suits me down to the ground.

I pay a playstation plus subscription now so the cost for online play doesn't bother me either, with playstation plus in the last 12 mnths I've had tons of Themes for my PS background and Menu and full games that I've downloaded such as Red dead redemption, Batman Arkham Asylum, Resident Evil, Uncharted and others. Also get discount on Music Unlimited account. Not bad for £40 I don't think.

Can't see many people changing sides from what they have and love now tbh but the few that do I think will be listening to the media / social media and think MS have f**ked up (I don't think they have at all) and will jump ship to Sony.

If I had an Xbox now, truthfully the E3 announcements and facts & cost wouldn't put me off from staying with MS, no way.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:30 pm  

The always looking and always listening thing just puts me right off the xbox.

And not just because it reminds me of a telescreen, the amount of error is going to be ridiculously annoying, let's say you're sat with your mates and chatting whilst playing Fifa, something done by many. All of a sudden the xbox picks up a phrase and turns off, goes home, buys a film, renews your subscription for 20 years. It sounds ridiculously far fetched but even on the relatively simple and nice 360 microsoft are at your wallet as often as they can, and oh you purchased some microsoft points? We'll just turn automatic renewal back on while we're here.

Also, I know for a fact if this had come out ten or so years ago, me and my brother would constantly be walking into eachothers' rooms and saying "xbox turn off".

Xbox have a potential PR and marketing disaster on their hands if they don't rectify things sharpish

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:07 pm  

My original copy of Bioshock broke (the infamous portrait standing Xbox that fell whilst playing) and I neve got round to getting a new one. Borrowed it off a mate again the other day and just getting back into it.
Anyone else think its a little bit overrated?
The new one has rave reviews too, mind.